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How can Apple deal with the memory shortage?

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Re: How can Apple deal with the memory shortage?

#181

Post by kube-system »

pmontra wrote: post #180
kube-system wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This makes everyone’s computer slower, more expensive, and less power efficient, and 95-99% of people will never open their computer anyway.

Anecdotally, I bought a HP laptop in 2014 with the basic 8 GB of internal RAM (4+4) and two 8 GB chips from a third party vendor. I opened the box and immediately threw away the 4+4 and replaced them with the 8+8. As you can guess it was much cheaper than the same 8+8 from HP. With soldered RAM one has to swallow whatever price the laptop manufacturer charges.

If you're generating e-waste right out of the box, I wouldn't say that's a plus.

Re: How can Apple deal with the memory shortage?

#182

Post by musicale »

hstaab wrote: post #149
insumanth wrote: post #102

My Guess * Absorb the impact by some margin * Slash base models (which they are already doing) * Efficient software - So, end user experience is not affected. * Direct Price hike always be an option.

#3 may prove difficult besides Safari

Pausing non-foreground apps and compressing/swapping out their memory seems to work well on the iPhone.

Re: How can Apple deal with the memory shortage?

#183

Post by intelkishan »

clumsysmurf wrote: post #146
Dunedan wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firefox unloads tabs under memory pressure since more than 4 years: https://hacks.mozilla.org/2021/10/tab-unloading-in-firefox-9...

It is a naive and suboptimal implementation, they even describe it in the link you posted "We have now approached the problem again by refining our low-memory detection and tab selection algorithm and narrowing the action to the case where we are sure we’re providing a user benefit: if the browser is about to crash." I would prefer FF to be more proactive in unloading tabs way before "its about to crash" to keep syst…

Which extension are you using in Firefox for memory unloading?

Re: How can Apple deal with the memory shortage?

#184

Post by Danox »

praseodym wrote: post #158
Danox wrote: post #156

Apple can deal with the memory shortage in the same way they dealt with Intel saying no to building a processor for the iPhone the Apple Silicon design group can certainly do what’s necessary in house to design memory and SSD’s in house, and since Apple saved money on not participating in the AI data-center fiasco money won’t be a problem. Apple can team up with TSMC to build some type of memory fab in the United Sta…

> since Apple saved money on not participating in the AI data-center fiasco They have unused custom built AI servers sitting in warehouses: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47221264

Don’t be obtuse, what Apple didn’t do and isn’t doing is spending billions upon billions and dollars trying to train AI models like Meta, Google or Microsoft, Oracle and OpenAI those five companies together have spent well over $1 trillion dollars? In their efforts to date.

Now I know Apple has given a measly one billion dollar refund to Google so far and they’re not paying OpenAI anything as far as we know and internally, maybe Apple spent a couple of billion dollars, which is less than what they spent on their rumored electric car so I think they have the money.

Re: How can Apple deal with the memory shortage?

#185

Post by Danox »

throw0101c wrote: post #171
HDBaseT wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would suspect at Apple scale it makes sense. Apple has started making a lot of different things in house, its only a matter of time imo.

> Apple has started making a lot of different things in house, its only a matter of time imo. Define "making". Sure, they design a lot of stuff in-house (CPUs/SoCs, wireless chipsets, etc ), but they do not manufacture these things in-house: they have no fabs themselves.

Definition: Apple is the architect and engineer, and someone else will do the fab probably TSMC who is also motivated to keep their engines running?

Re: How can Apple deal with the memory shortage?

#186

Post by aaronsung »

thisislife2 wrote: post #108

Just a thought - stop bloody soldering the RAM and the SSDs. That partially transfers the burden on to the customers and makes their product more repairable ... Mac Minis (with un-soldered RAM and HDD / SSDs) used to be sold with minimum 4 GB RAM, if I remember right). This, way, you can still sell devices with lower RAM, and customers can upgrade in the future when supply increases.

The thing is why do they have to do so? In terms of bargaining power, Apple has the best position comparing to other cell phone/ iPad/ PC vendors. Their software are way more memory efficient than the competitors (like Windows 11 with all the bloated Electron/ Webview2 wrappers).

Re: How can Apple deal with the memory shortage?

#187

Post by kennywinker »

kube-system wrote: post #152
kennywinker wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

95-99% of first owners, maybe. But when you make devices that can be affordably repaired / expanded, they will be - and then they gain another 5-10 years of useful lifespan for a second owner. If we ever want computers to be sustainably made - instead of scorching the earth with each new device - we need to stop thinking the way people treat their devices is some natural law of how things will always be.

> If we ever want computers to be sustainably made - instead of scorching the earth with each new device - we need to stop thinking the way people treat their devices is some natural law of how things will always be. If this was solved by upgradable components, we would have "solved" e-waste in the 90s. Component upgradability is not a sustainability solution, because it is architecturally bounded.

Hard disagree. First of all, it’s true that upgrades were not a solution to sustainability in the 90s, but the issue was that computers were gaining ground exponentially. In just a few years, everything you had was so outmoded it was hard to imagine hardware that lasted more than maybe 5 years. That has changed.

Second, sustainability isn’t a true false state. My previous computer, a 2015 macbook air, lasted me until this year. If it had upgradable ram it might have lasted me another 5 years. A computer that lasts forever is probably impossible, but 15 years is better than 10, and 10 is better than 5.

Re: How can Apple deal with the memory shortage?

#188

Post by ksec »

Danox wrote: post #157
ksec wrote: post #153

I am just sadden to see this question constantly being floated. Someday Apple will make their own memory, own chip, own Fab. It makes zero sense for them to do so. People don't seems to realise how commodity works. When price is high everyone is saying it is a cartel. When they are losing money they say it is tough luck.

The current memory crisis it’s just another/final nail in the coffin for Apple moving the design and engineering of memory in house they have the capability and they have the money to do so.

May be Apple should purchase Intel or TSMC first? So they could be their own Foundry? What about ASML so they could produce the machine that fabs requires?

And the current memory crisis? There is no crisis for Apple. There is only crisis for others buying at spot price.

Re: How can Apple deal with the memory shortage?

#189

Post by throw0101c »

Danox wrote: post #185
throw0101c wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple has started making a lot of different things in house, its only a matter of time imo. Define "making". Sure, they design a lot of stuff in-house (CPUs/SoCs, wireless chipsets, etc ), but they do not manufacture these things in-house: they have no fabs themselves.

Definition: Apple is the architect and engineer, and someone else will do the fab probably TSMC who is also motivated to keep their engines running?

Given the current issue is with fab capacity, what would Apple gain by being the architect/engineer of RAM? They hand off the 'blueprints' to someone who is already at capacity?

And it's not about motivation, but capacity: everything is currently at 100%. To get more capacity means building more fabs, and given the historically cyclical nature of semiconductors not may people want to necessarily take that risk (potentially end up with over capacity). And it wouldn't help now, as it takes >2 years to build a fab.

Unless the suggestion is for Apple to design M- and A-series CPUs with the memory circuitry in-die instead of on-package? (Using up some 'transistor budget' for RAM.)

Re: How can Apple deal with the memory shortage?

#190

Post by hstaab »

musicale wrote: post #182
hstaab wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

#3 may prove difficult besides Safari

Pausing non-foreground apps and compressing/swapping out their memory seems to work well on the iPhone.

You are correct. Though I’m talking more about never-before-solved in-foreground problems such as: Spotlight Search or SwiftUI List views.
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