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Ratty – A terminal emulator with inline 3D graphics

ratty-term.org

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Re: Ratty – A terminal emulator with inline 3D graphics

#181

Post by dkersten »

reaperducer wrote: post #132
dkersten wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s what I came here to ask. Their demo looks like Compiz back in the day: ok, cool, you have 3d effects, but… why? What does it do for me? Compiz 3d effects were ultimately a useless gimmick and I predict this is too.

Lack of imagination doesn't mean this isn't innovation. It's the ability to convey more information in less space. Top-of-my-head notion: The cursor spins (or changes in another way) to reflect CPU use, or bandwidth use, instead of taking up space elsewhere on the screen.

The same was said about Compiz, but it turned out to be a passing gimmick that looked flashy but didn’t really add anything. Sure you could always make up reasons why it’s useful, I remember the same about Compiz, but… is it really? I could be proven wrong, of course, but it hasn’t been demonstrated yet.

It’s a solution in search of a problem. OP should have presented it with a real use case or benefit, not just flashy graphics, if it’s meant to be anything other than a fun oddity (which, to be fair, is perfectly fine).

Re: Ratty – A terminal emulator with inline 3D graphics

#183

Post by dpacmittal »

ghostoftiber wrote: post #168

This reminds me of when compiz came out and everyone was like MY WINDOWS ARE ON A CUBE and I NEED WOBBLY WINDOWS. So anyway, being that guy, I immediately installed it.

I remember those good old days. I had virtualbox running win xp on its dedicated face on the compiz cube. It felt magical to switch between windows and Ubuntu specially with all the compiz animation goodies

Re: Ratty – A terminal emulator with inline 3D graphics

#184

Post by mncharity »

A couple of comments here mention using this in VR. Fwiw, years back I played a bit with shallow-3D UIs for software dev. Shallow like within a few cm of a laptop display, to minimize VAC eye strain for all-day use. Think more being able to layer and draw in color, but in 3D, rather than waving arms in a room.

The 3D can be wiggle 3D, or perspective from webcam head/eye tracking, or stereo from shutter glasses, or XR HMDs. Wiggle is easiest - just move the object orientation back and forth. Cute but distracting. Well, cross/parallel-eye gaze is easier, but limited - ok for little UI test swatches. Perspective is more subtle, less intrusive. Can be simple with a head tracker driving a single orientation, or go all in with eye pose (for distance) and window locations, to do an accurate 3D render. App stereo pairs can be "I give you two windows Left/Right-eye", or "alternating L/R view, labeled/synced/polled". Other possibilities. Many of these need window system/manager/desktop support. I found a lot of leverage in using a stack of electron and X.

It's fun to displace text in 3D. Like colorization, but more so. And if you don't mind a cluttered appearance, you can add secondary information layers segregated by depth. And... etc. Emacs with characters-have-a-depth finally gets you something LispMs didn't have. Fun aside, to explore possibilities with code text, with anything not inherently 3D, far easier to prototype UX with fg/bg colors, fonts, unicode, and animation. Or in browser, overlaid divs and transparent 2D/3D canvases.

Re: Ratty – A terminal emulator with inline 3D graphics

#186

Post by reaperducer »

dkersten wrote: post #181
reaperducer wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lack of imagination doesn't mean this isn't innovation. It's the ability to convey more information in less space. Top-of-my-head notion: The cursor spins (or changes in another way) to reflect CPU use, or bandwidth use, instead of taking up space elsewhere on the screen.

The same was said about Compiz, but it turned out to be a passing gimmick that looked flashy but didn’t really add anything. Sure you could always make up reasons why it’s useful, I remember the same about Compiz, but… is it really? I could be proven wrong, of course, but it hasn’t been demonstrated yet. It’s a solution in search of a problem. OP should have presented it with a real use case or benefit, not just flas…

It’s a solution in search of a problem.

So were iPods.

Re: Ratty – A terminal emulator with inline 3D graphics

#187

Post by hans-l »

pjmlp wrote: post #35

UNIX still trying to catch up with Xerox workstations in the REPL experience, or general Lisp machines for that matter. Inline graphics from 1981, https://youtu.be/o4-YnLpLgtk?t=376

Sometimes I really feel we're chasing UX that were solved in the Mother of all Demos (in 1968).

For those who haven't watched it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJDv-zdhzMY

Re: Ratty – A terminal emulator with inline 3D graphics

#188

Post by dTal »

noelwelsh wrote: post #46

I like this. No reason the terminal should only support text. Data science notebooks show one way the terminal can evolve. Lots of interesting stuff happening in this space, with Kitty probably being the most aggressive innovator here [1]. I'm not sure there is an overall vision, though. [1]: https://sw.kovidgoyal.net/kitty/protocol-extensions/

ipython-qtconsole seems very underappreciated to me.

Re: Ratty – A terminal emulator with inline 3D graphics

#190

Post by tikimcfee »

mncharity wrote: post #184

A couple of comments here mention using this in VR. Fwiw, years back I played a bit with shallow-3D UIs for software dev. Shallow like within a few cm of a laptop display, to minimize VAC eye strain for all-day use. Think more being able to layer and draw in color, but in 3D, rather than waving arms in a room. The 3D can be wiggle 3D, or perspective from webcam head/eye tracking, or stereo from shutter glasses, or XR…

I have a working fully 3D glyph based text rendering system I can't seem to get people to look at.

It's this. Every character is a 3d placed quad, instanced rendered, so you get tens of millions and then some. They are individually addressable and mutable like any polygon. I use it to render entire GitHub repos in one go. I have two versions, native Apple and web. Web has the basics of an ide setup. Would love insight or thoughts.

https://ivanlugo.dev/ide

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