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Maryland citizens hit with $2B power grid upgrade for out-of-state AI

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Re: Maryland citizens hit with $2B power grid upgrade for out-of-state AI

#181

Post by fennecfoxy »

vatsachak wrote: post #78
UqWBcuFx6NV4r wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is so much FUD going around SPECIFICALLY about data centers lately, that i’m dubious of anything i hear. it’s such a weird cultural phenomenon. Chronically online teenagers on Instagram making increasingly incorrect and absurd-sounding claims about water / energy usage. Comparatively barely anyone knew what a data center was 1-2 years ago.

They're chronically online because millennials basically shoved digital heroin into their face from birth

>millennials basically shoved digital heroin into their face from birth

Pretty sure you mean gen z.

Re: Maryland citizens hit with $2B power grid upgrade for out-of-state AI

#182

Post by fennecfoxy »

JuniperMesos wrote: post #59
anonymousiam wrote: post #28

It seems that big money can overrule local government regulators at will. Here in Nevada, (Warran Buffet owned) NV Energy already has approval for a "Demand Charge" that will increase rates for everyone, and further reduce the ridiculously low amount of money that consumers get for selling their excess solar power back to the grid. The regulators didn't even resist, but there has now been so much backlash that they'r…

As a YIMBYist who can't afford a house where I live, I actively want big money to overrule local government regulators at will, because big money developers make their big money by building houses and local regulators are responding to the NIMBYist concerns of ordinary homeowners that result in insufficient housing getting built. A local government regulator fighting for the interests of local homeowners does not nec…

Lmao. I dislike hypocritical NIMBYs as much as any other person but you surely cannot believe that "big money" will do anything beneficial for you.

Big money isn't big money because they're doin' good out there, just sayin. Welcome to late stage capitalism prepare yourself for classics like "Ow! My balls!" and "It's what plants crave".

Re: Maryland citizens hit with $2B power grid upgrade for out-of-state AI

#183

Post by 1shooner »

timmg wrote: post #158
1shooner wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you believe NERC? https://www.nerc.com/newsroom/nerc-issues-level-3-alert-reli...

Of course. (Though I didn’t see a mention of data centers in that doc? I did see “equipment manufacturers” mentioned specifically.)

The draft term is 'computational load'[0], which is the focus of the L3 essential action in that press release.

NERC's concern appears to be computational load cutting. In 2024 for instance, 60 data centers in NoVa cut 1500Mw of load in a matter of seconds[1]. Dominion reported 70GW of large load deliver points, with 40GW in new requests that are 'vast majority' data centers.

40GW is approximately enough to power about 30 million homes (at 1000 kwh/month).

0. https://www.nerc.com/globalassets/who-we-are/rules-of-proced...

1. https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/en/news/virginia-narrowly...

Re: Maryland citizens hit with $2B power grid upgrade for out-of-state AI

#184

Post by triceratops »

fakedang wrote: post #170
3eb7988a1663 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am finding that 42% of California water is agriculture and 8% of that is for almonds. 3% of state water usage on a luxury nut might not be moving the needle that much, but it does feel wasteful for a state that is perpetually hovering on drought conditions.

It's even more wasteful when you realize that the USG is trying to force governments around the world to buy Californian almonds, even in places where almonds are traditionally grown and harvested. And then there's the matter of Saudis coaxing farmers to grow alfalfa which is then exported to Saudi Arabia to feed cows there (!).

> even in places where almonds are traditionally grown and harvested.

California grows 80% of the world's almonds. Every other place that grows almonds is practically a rounding error in the number of almonds out there.

Re: Maryland citizens hit with $2B power grid upgrade for out-of-state AI

#185

Post by harry19023 »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #152
harry19023 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just not true. Here's the California grid from yesterday: https://www.gridstatus.io/live/caiso?date=2026-05-09 Peak demand is 6 PM when everyone gets home from work and turns on the air conditioning. EDIT: Your chart shows the same thing? Demand is highest at 6 pm, not noon.

Unless the graph explicitly states that it includes distributed behind-the-meter solar, then any dip in demand that looks like the inverse of solar is probably grid demand being replaced with local generation on homes and factory roofs or industrial land. People regularly use the demand being supplied by solar to argue that solar isn't delivering when people need electricity. The yearly peak grid demand in California…

That's the whole point. The OP was lamenting that consumers are getting less for selling their behind-the-meter solar, but if everyone has behind-the-meter solar then that solar is cheap to worthless when the sun is shining. And that's a good thing! The sun is free, all of us utilizing it during the day for free means electricity is cheap during the day. It's when the sun sets and all that solar goes offline and demand rises that electricity gets expensive again.

Re: Maryland citizens hit with $2B power grid upgrade for out-of-state AI

#186

Post by throw4847285 »

ben_w wrote: post #155
pjc50 wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pitch for AI from its proponents is the destruction of all white collar and creative jobs, while simultaneously making all the content they consume worse and Internet socialization with human strangers replaced by doppelgangers? And you wonder why people are upset?

I believe the proponents think it will make all the content better, not worse, but the current state of affairs is indeed definitely worse. But I essentially agree with you, the destruction of all white collar and creative jobs is something the proponents hand-wave too easily with vague mention of UBI as a thought-terminating cliché rather than a real policy proposal. (Myself, I'm in a strange position with doppelgän…

> (Myself, I'm in a strange position with doppelgängers, because I simultaneously want real human connection and keep getting disappointed with many of the real humans).

I don't think you're in a strange position at all. You are just being honest about what is the undercurrent of much of modern technological development. AI is simple the apex of a trend to replace human interaction with a simulacrum, which without your awareness, reduces your own tolerance for the frustrations of real human interaction, thus making you more dependent on the simulacrum.

Re: Maryland citizens hit with $2B power grid upgrade for out-of-state AI

#187

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

rincebrain wrote: post #177
jliptzin wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That just delays the problem a couple years

There's pretty noticable differences in ability to self-regulate between people who had unfiltered access to computers and smartphones when growing up and not, beyond simply generational shifts. I think the parent's assumption is that 16 is old enough for those problems to be largely avoided even if you gave them unfiltered access, which is what makes it not just kicking the can down the road.

Yes, it’s this.

I know a six-year-old with an iPhone. Any efforts to not do that is going to help.

I remember early internet and how it was on a teenager. Can’t imagine just signing up your kids for what it is now just because I won’t be able to keep them from it forever.

Re: Maryland citizens hit with $2B power grid upgrade for out-of-state AI

#188

Post by stopyellingatme »

bogometer wrote: post #95

Even in Texas' "disconnected" grid, we're seeing the same mess. Oncor is currently staring down a mind-boggling 350 GW in data center requests - to put that in perspective, that's more than triple ERCOT's entire peak demand. They’re now pivoting to a $47 billion infrastructure spree just to keep up, and they’ve already pushed through a $560 million rate hike to help foot the bill. It’s the same story as Maryland: no…

> Oncor is currently staring down a mind-boggling 350 GW in data center requests

They could go back to the future ~413 times with that kind of buildout

Re: Maryland citizens hit with $2B power grid upgrade for out-of-state AI

#189

Post by ZeroGravitas »

harry19023 wrote: post #185
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless the graph explicitly states that it includes distributed behind-the-meter solar, then any dip in demand that looks like the inverse of solar is probably grid demand being replaced with local generation on homes and factory roofs or industrial land. People regularly use the demand being supplied by solar to argue that solar isn't delivering when people need electricity. The yearly peak grid demand in California…

That's the whole point. The OP was lamenting that consumers are getting less for selling their behind-the-meter solar, but if everyone has behind-the-meter solar then that solar is cheap to worthless when the sun is shining. And that's a good thing! The sun is free, all of us utilizing it during the day for free means electricity is cheap during the day. It's when the sun sets and all that solar goes offline and dema…

You said this wasn't true:

> you happen to know when the demand for power is the highest? It happens to be.... gasp.... when the sun is highest in the sky.

But it mostly is.

But yeah if everyone has solar then it's all producing at this time and the very high production can exceed the high demand.

Re: Maryland citizens hit with $2B power grid upgrade for out-of-state AI

#190

Post by [deleted] »

pembrook wrote: post #172
Ekaros wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Existing power infra is likely fine enough for current demands. And building new infra doesn't necessarily mean it will be any cheaper to operate or use. So with datacentres providing rather little local economic activity after being build and potential impact on electricity costs say during night overall they are not that beneficial.

It absolutely is not, power infrastructure throughout the US has been massively under-invested in for decades. Nobody wants to admit this though because they hate AI and what it represents more than they want to rationally think about infrastructure.

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