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For thirty years I programmed with Phish on, every day

christophermeiklejohn.com

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Re: For thirty years I programmed with Phish on, every day

#181

Post by Izkata »

skydhash wrote: post #145
robotswantdata wrote: post #51

IMO assisted coding (auto complete style) has more flow state than the old days of getting stuck on obscure bugs (as satisfying as those were to crack). Full agent coding however is the complete opposite, you’re in constant damage control of a junior who moves fast and breaks everything. They’ve got better but still do dumb mistakes. lot of engineers are discovering firsthand what it’s like to manage a team of eager…

> IMO assisted coding (auto complete style) has more flow state than the old days of getting stuck on obscure bugs (as satisfying as those were to crack). I strongly doubt that. Flow state happens when you can disassociate thinking and doing. Most of your brain is on the thinking while the doing lags behind. It’s like driving on a well known road. You don’t pay that much attention to the act of driving. Instead maybe…

I feel like that even with regular autocomplete, I've often described it popping up as a mental speedbump.

Re: For thirty years I programmed with Phish on, every day

#182

Post by Izkata »

konart wrote: post #91

I'm not sure how I feel (or should feel) when I read posts list this. Here I am still coding (mostly) by hand. While I also sometimes do chat with qwen or use an agent to save some time writting tests or yaml, or "implementing" a draft version of a change, I can't really understand this "the job is changed". Do some companies in some countries force you to use these agents? Are they going to fire you because Jack or…

I have heard of companies that are counting how much you spend on AI in your performance review (higher = better). I'm not at one of these, but upper management is pushing it hard, and I'm lucky that my team has a technical manager who understands the limitations. So I'm not using it either.

Re: For thirty years I programmed with Phish on, every day

#183

Post by hyperadvanced »

Izkata wrote: post #180
hyperadvanced wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think anyone’s true calling is coding. That’s like saying you really like the act of writing, so much that you’d become a stenographer or a typist or something where you do zero higher level thinking and just absent mindedly press buttons. Most people who are good at tech hate coding so much that they come up with elaborate abstractions so that they can avoid doing more of it.

I recommend you read the post because that's a really bad misunderstanding of the mindset, and like the comment at the top of this chain says, the post explains it well.

I read the post. I don’t agree with the “people are born to do one thing” mindset. There’s a lot of possibilities out there for everyone. I do identify with this OP fellow somewhat, except that I usually don’t code for fun on nights and weekends (also sunday code sesh can be fun)

Re: For thirty years I programmed with Phish on, every day

#184

Post by iamanllm »

As a phish fan, this is an especially sad read. I wonder what new developers might feel, if they have the same sense of wonder and joy, listening to a brand new jam, working with an agent to create something, learning a thing or two about development, and being proud. I hope so.

Re: For thirty years I programmed with Phish on, every day

#185

Post by Gud »

archagon wrote: post #153
nu11ptr wrote: post #24

People are blown away when I tell them that, in the last 6 months, my job of coding has changed entirely, and that I now write very little code, but instead manage agents who write it. It is still engineering, and I still very much care what that code is, it's interfaces, how it interacts with the world, how it is tested, etc. etc., but it has taken me a while to get used to the idea of me not writing the code. I'm s…

I disagree completely that what you describe is still “engineering.” You are now a manager. In effect, you’ve consented to a career change.

I disagree. Even with agentic coding, you make engineering decisions.

Re: For thirty years I programmed with Phish on, every day

#186

Post by skydhash »

Izkata wrote: post #181
skydhash wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> IMO assisted coding (auto complete style) has more flow state than the old days of getting stuck on obscure bugs (as satisfying as those were to crack). I strongly doubt that. Flow state happens when you can disassociate thinking and doing. Most of your brain is on the thinking while the doing lags behind. It’s like driving on a well known road. You don’t pay that much attention to the act of driving. Instead maybe…

I feel like that even with regular autocomplete, I've often described it popping up as a mental speedbump.

I like completion, but not when it’s automatic. Usually the first thing I disable in an editor or IDE if I use it daily.

Re: For thirty years I programmed with Phish on, every day

#187

Post by konart »

wolttam wrote: post #94
konart wrote: post #91

I'm not sure how I feel (or should feel) when I read posts list this. Here I am still coding (mostly) by hand. While I also sometimes do chat with qwen or use an agent to save some time writting tests or yaml, or "implementing" a draft version of a change, I can't really understand this "the job is changed". Do some companies in some countries force you to use these agents? Are they going to fire you because Jack or…

Yes, companies will hire employees that are significantly faster if they can do some for around the same cost. And they can - the current crop of tools provide undeniable productivity uplifts to developers, even if they’re only using the cheaper open weight models. I was like you, using them for one shot things until January of this year. My token usage has roughly 100x’d since then, once I saw the value in the agent…

>Yes, companies will hire employees that are significantly faster if they can do some for around the same cost.

And how do you test this when you hire? An interview where you have to implement something using LLM only?

Re: For thirty years I programmed with Phish on, every day

#188

Post by Izkata »

Arainach wrote: post #76
dgellow wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn’t really clarify

It explicitly says "the band". All the context in the first paragraphs is about the music. It absolutely clarifies. The rest of the article talks about listening to the music, watching them (or wanting to watch them) in concert or in tour. Read the article. Or just look at the top search result for Phish. Stop being lazy.

The whole rest of the sentence implies they're talking about something else based on the band, not the band itself.

Re: For thirty years I programmed with Phish on, every day

#189

Post by nyantaro1 »

specproc wrote: post #165
artyom wrote: post #36

Everyone is talking about the agents part. I'm going to praise this post for describing it very clearly that some people, from a young age, don't need phases, growing up, trying things, figuring out, exploring the world, finding themselves. Some people are just born something (engineers, in this case), and they're that something for life. I always have a hard time explaining to "normal people" that such life is not b…

What I really enjoy is learning. I came back to computing after many years in another field, and was completely in love. Everything finally clicked, I'd spend hours reading everything I could, coding, trying things out, letting half-half-built projects pile up as I discovered new things. AI has completely ruined this for me. Its boring having someone else do stuff for you. And worse, I feel I'm un-learning at a rapid…

Same for me

Re: For thirty years I programmed with Phish on, every day

#190

Post by greatquux »

emil-lp wrote: post #101
Arainach wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It explicitly says "the band". All the context in the first paragraphs is about the music. It absolutely clarifies. The rest of the article talks about listening to the music, watching them (or wanting to watch them) in concert or in tour. Read the article. Or just look at the top search result for Phish. Stop being lazy.

I literally read the entire article without understanding that Phish is a band. Call me lazy if you will. You could also have chosen to just say they're a band and recommend me a record to listen to. Something something 1 in 10'000.

It's very hard for Phish fans to only provide ONE example. :-). I will try to limit my suggestions to only 3.

This is a version of "Sand" from their trancey period and I would think makes for good coding time: https://youtu.be/B73cbfHSuH8?si=WPOI5pYYOfPg7OAi

Here's a rocking version of "Ghost" into a ballad "Mountains in the Mist" from 2003: https://youtu.be/7cMwsBUHjq0?si=5_p64FSvsY08dw0E

This is a multi-section crazy of "Simple" from 2021 where it really seems like aliens have landed: https://youtu.be/wF2j2UPLlA8?si=KWvvL3MlLFpc-LHy

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