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American Dads Became the Parents Their Fathers Never Were

derekthompson.org

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Re: American Dads Became the Parents Their Fathers Never Were

#181

Post by Ancapistani »

jaredklewis wrote: post #125
Ancapistani wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That study appears to be US only, while global studies have shown the effect. For that matter, some _animal_ studies have shown declining testosterone as well. That doesn't seem to be well-studied, but if it holds up it would make me lean toward it being something environmental (e.g. microplastic pollution)

I linked that study because it is particularly interesting because they run the mass spec test on archived blood samples. But there are other studies and meta analyses which cover other countries and come to the same conclusion. I think many of the studies claiming to find significant population level decline are older and overstate the issue due to the methodological errors outlined in my previous post. If you are t…

I appreciate it, and will catch up on the current state. It’s been a couple of years since I looked into this.

Re: American Dads Became the Parents Their Fathers Never Were

#182

Post by ishouldstayaway »

kelipso wrote: post #103
david-gpu wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found that /r/daddit was full of pictures of dads with infants. On the other hand, /r/parenting was full of moms desperate because their partners didn't to their part. It really paints a picture, if you think about it.

It's like how /r/steak is just dudes posting steak pictures, and there is some new cooking sub where it's just women posting food pictures and complaining about their significant others. Women be complaining.

> there is some new cooking sub where it's just women posting food pictures and complaining about their significant others

If you are referring to /r/girldinnerdiaries, that is not a cooking sub, nor is it intended to be. The whole point is pairing a photo of dinner with the situation and mood of the photographer.

It's right there in the name: Girl Dinner Diaries.

Re: American Dads Became the Parents Their Fathers Never Were

#183

Post by mekdoonggi »

grvdrm wrote: post #177
mekdoonggi wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can honestly say that I don't have any time for a dad who isn't all-in for their kids. I understand if the responsibilities aren't 50/50, but if you're making mom handle everything I think you're a loser. All my millennial dad friends clean, change diapers, cook, whatever. And make no mistake all the moms are incredibly hard-working and involved with the kids. If I happened to meet socially a dad who wasn't doing t…

I’m with you mostly. Some different specifics but the point in mind is this: it’s a common thread of rapport and conversation. I sometimes feel like an alien on earth when I spend time with friends or other groups where there seems to be a atrong “ughh my family and home life” vibe.

I said hello to another dad at soccer for three-year-olds, and he responded with something like, "Ugh, I'd rather be ANYWHERE else".

It's 10am on a Saturday and you're running around playing games with your kid. I just stared at him and went on.

Re: American Dads Became the Parents Their Fathers Never Were

#185

Post by mapotofu »

david-gpu wrote: post #72
giantg2 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The number of mums who say their partner is not involved really at all in their child's care is so sad." While that can be true, I wonder how much of it is true. It's pretty common in therapy to hear partners saying the other one doesn't contribute, but further investigation can often turn up observation biases.

Without proper statistics we can't know. But I do wonder why is it that if you spend any time on parenting websites you find lots of mothers complaining about deadbeat husbands, and so few fathers complaining about deadbeat wives. Purely anecdotal, but it is very lopsided, and it has made me wonder why is it. I am a dad, FWIW.

> But I do wonder why is it that if you spend any time on parenting websites you find lots of mothers complaining about deadbeat husbands, and so few fathers complaining about deadbeat wives.

My ex wife does this. I take my issues with her to a therapist (instead of online forums). FWIW I have always been more present than her in our child’s life and certainly pay a lot more too. One data point, but it’s in the population you’re referring to.

Some people want sympathy at the expense of their partner’s reputation.

Re: American Dads Became the Parents Their Fathers Never Were

#186

Post by ravenstine »

giantg2 wrote: post #105
hackable_sand wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is your bias talking.

The reseach says otherwise. https://couplestherapyinc.com/why-women-complain-and-why-men...

Research is of course useful but not even necessary here. This is common sense.

Re: American Dads Became the Parents Their Fathers Never Were

#187

Post by lotsofpulp »

mitthrowaway2 wrote: post #180
lotsofpulp wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>are we a traditional household in your view? In the context of the original comment by pkaler, and subsequent replies from basswood, mschuster91, purplerabbit, and nradov, I understood "trad household structures" to be one where the man in a husband/wife relationship sells his labor to someone else and the woman does not. So yes, but, I would note that there is probably a difference (for the purposes of this convers…

For what it's worth, we're the first type, which is why my wife will probably join the workforce in a few years too, for want of money. But while the kids are young she thinks it's really important to stay home with them, even if it means living in a cramped basement for now. But the point is, we both would prefer to be home with the children, and it's only for want of money that either (or both) of us would work. Th…

>as though everyone deeply wants to spend their waking days at an office desk / driving an Uber / etc,

I don't think this is it, which is why I brought up a trust fund in one of my previous comments.

This comes down to personal risk tolerances, but it seems evident that many people feel that volatility in job markets and shrinking economic opportunities mean that there is a sufficient gain in security of housing/food/energy/healthcare/future economic opportunities such that it can be worth a sacrifice in spending time with children.

My parents moved to the US, along with their extended families from a developing country, and they almost all spent 24/7 working to develop businesses or whatever to ensure the kids had more opportunity than them. And they succeeded, most of my cousins do very well for themselves, and they can have a spouse that stays at home without decreasing their kids' future chances, but some don't (perhaps because their parents ended up in a stagnant metro rather than a growing one, that one factor is the single biggest difference in trajectories in my family).

It is easier than ever to be outcompeted by someone else around the world, so there is kind of an up or out situation for those that aim for maintaining a certain quality of life. It's also fine to opt out of that rat race, but from my perspective, the biggest cost is less access to healthcare.

I would note that the whole one spouse spending time with kids thing is probably a post world war 2 American/British phenomenon. Even in village life in developing countries, both the husband and wife are out working in factories or fields while grandparents who can't work anymore or older siblings and cousins are taking care of the kids. It's a grind for most people, most of the time.

Re: American Dads Became the Parents Their Fathers Never Were

#188

Post by infermore »

dimes wrote: post #174
pluralmonad wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should definitely follow your instincts here, but wanting researchers to show you how to raise your kids is a fools errand IMO. Put those highly tuned parental instincts to use!

Isn’t this the exact sentiment used by those who oppose vaccinations?

different advice is appropriate in different situations, believe it or not

Re: American Dads Became the Parents Their Fathers Never Were

#189

Post by ndriscoll »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #158
ndriscoll wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment's framing makes no sense to me. My wife pushed for me to go into engineering instead of academia so she could stay home and we could be comfortable. We're married. We have kids. The entire point is we're not independent. That's what married literally means. Unioned. Joined. There is no her and me. There is us. Why would you need or even want to be independent? Why would you plan to form a family while ke…

Plenty of women (and men) end up in relationships they hate, and if they have no independence they are pretty much fucked. They have no way to escape. Women having options makes a huge difference. What you are describing is pretty much ideal for a lot of people, but it's not what everybody gets.

How does this happen though? It's not like you wake up one day, look around and see you've started life in the middle, you're married and have kids, and you hate your spouse. Did your spouse have a stroke and undergo some massive personality change or something?

Assuming you want a family, your very top priority when evaluating someone for dating from the very beginning should be whether that person would make a good spouse and help you to form that family. Otherwise what are you even doing? Someone who can't commit is its own red flag for that purpose. If you have kids, that's it. You're in it. You need to be committed.

And having a job doesn't mean you're independent of your spouse anyway. If one of us died or we split, it'd be absolutely devastating to our family regardless of the money (e.g. if life insurance/social security covered everything). I would be hugely screwed trying to raise the kids without her, job notwithstanding.

Re: American Dads Became the Parents Their Fathers Never Were

#190

Post by grvdrm »

mekdoonggi wrote: post #183
grvdrm wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m with you mostly. Some different specifics but the point in mind is this: it’s a common thread of rapport and conversation. I sometimes feel like an alien on earth when I spend time with friends or other groups where there seems to be a atrong “ughh my family and home life” vibe.

I said hello to another dad at soccer for three-year-olds, and he responded with something like, "Ugh, I'd rather be ANYWHERE else". It's 10am on a Saturday and you're running around playing games with your kid. I just stared at him and went on.

Exactly.

My older daughter is on a competitive cheerleading team. Not something we (parents) suggested but instead she found through school friends. She loves it. Has boosted her confidence and athletic prowess.

There aren't many dads at the meets relative to moms. Not remotely surprising. I'm the first person to admit that I don't know how to do hair or make up.

I see quite a divergence among the men in commentary. Some are there and happy their kids are loving it - they're finding a way to make peace with the situation. Some are checked out, on phones, looking grumpy at best.

Some part of me gets it. Wild asymmetry in that sport. Performances are just a few minutes long, but there's a shit-ton of practice and weekend days/entire weekends dedicated to cheer.

It would be so so so easy to say "get me out of here" but I've found a way to enjoy and make peace and make a friend or two along the way.

Contrast with her other current sport: lacrosse. First season and it's kind of a shit-show. But I'm with her in the sun on a Friday night - and with the right weather - it is a great place to be. We (parents, dads, etc.) see our friends there too.

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