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Meta in row after workers who saw smart glasses users having sex lose jobs

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Re: Meta in row after workers who saw smart glasses users having sex lose jobs

#181

Post by esyir »

2ndorderthought wrote: post #171
abdullahkhalids wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CSAM exists on social media because they are so large that it's not possible to moderate them effectively. To me this is a a no-go. If a business is so large that it cannot respect laws, it needs to be shut down. The correct way to organize social media is in federated way. Each server only holds on average a few hundred or few thousand people. Server moderators should be legally responsible for content on their serv…

Yep. If you cannot both safely and legally provide the thing you are selling you are no longer a legitimate company you are a criminal enterprise profiting off of exploitation.

If car manufacturers cannot bring car related deaths to zero, they too should no longer be legitimate companies.

Re: Meta in row after workers who saw smart glasses users having sex lose jobs

#182

Post by intended »

arowthway wrote: post #94
HumblyTossed wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this an honest argument? Surely you can think of how glasses might be ... in a different league than the two items you mention?

Because person wearing glasses usually can move and video surveillance cameras usually can't? If that's not it then spell it out for me, please. Also, why would i be deceptive in this discussion? I feel like I missed some ideological conflict.

Imagine someone pulling up a smartphone and then recording everything that happens around them. Contrast that with someone wearing smart glasses and doing that exact same thing.

On a separate note, (and this is a genuine question) are you by any chance aware the term Non-consensual intimate imagery / NCII?

I am beginning to suspect that the average HN goer isn’t aware of the scope and scale of the Trust and Safety problem.

Re: Meta in row after workers who saw smart glasses users having sex lose jobs

#183

Post by woodson »

2ndorderthought wrote: post #169
stingraycharles wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t that obvious from the article? They’re labeling content for training AIs, something which is happening all over the world constantly.

Yep gotta bake in that personal data into generative models so it can be reproduced later for profit.

Why generative? Or has it been decided that only generative models are “AI”?

Re: Meta in row after workers who saw smart glasses users having sex lose jobs

#185

Post by vel0city »

throwway120385 wrote: post #145
0xcafecafe wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have 2 kids in single digit ages (1 under 5). I bought meta gen 2 last month and I cannot describe how many sweet moments I have captured. My kid loves to sing while playing with dolls and stops as soon as I flip my phone out to record.

I hope you can appreciate that you're capturing this data for Meta and their contractors and that they have the capability of doing whatever they want with this data. My spouse and I ask everyone taking pictures of our kid to never post them to social media because Meta et. al. create a shadow profile using those pictures, and they can share those photos with contractors and with other people and we don't want a comp…

I get this argument and largely agree with it in regards to these meta glasses. Its why I don't currently use them.

But I'd like to have some smart glasses that do respect my privacy and offer this kind of functionality. Honestly, most of the things smart glasses do today are stuff I'd really like. Having my glasses just be the bone conduction headphones I often wear anyways? Check. Easy access to taking photos and short videos of life experiences? Love it. Integrated into the thing I'm often wearing on my head anyways? Perfect.

Re: Meta in row after workers who saw smart glasses users having sex lose jobs

#186

Post by SlinkyOnStairs »

prepend wrote: post #140
SlinkyOnStairs wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Fun" bonus fact: This isn't the first time Sama (the outsourcing company) has had these problems. OpenAI had them classify CSAM, so Sama fired them as a client back in 2022. https://time.com/6247678/openai-chatgpt-kenya-workers/ We're 4 years on, 3 years since that report broke. Not a single thing has improved about how tech companies operate.

How else do you want companies to remove and prevent CSAM? It seems like you must have some human involvement to train and monitor. It’s a terrible job, I wouldn’t want to do it, but someone needs to. Perhaps one day, AI will be accurate enough to not need it, but even then you need someone to process complaints and waivers (like someone’s home photos being inaccurately flagged).

> How else do you want companies to remove and prevent CSAM?

Different situation.

Facebook has to do CSAM moderation because it's a publishing platform. People will post CSAM on facebook, so they must do moderation.

And "just don't have facebook" isn't a solution because every publication of any sort has to deal with this problem; Any newspaper accepting mail has this problem. (Albeit to a much more scaled down version) People were nailing obscene things to bulletin boards for all recorded history.

---

In contrast, OpenAI has no such problem. It did not have CSAM pushed onto it, it actively collected such data itself. It could have, at any point before and after, simply stopped scraping all of the web indiscriminately and switched to using more curated sources of scraped data.

The downside would be "worse LLMs" or "LLMs being created later", which is a perfectly acceptable compromise.

---

This is not to say that genuine content flagging firms have no reason to curate such data & build tools to automatically flag content before human moderators have to. (But then they also shouldn't be outsourcing this and traumatizing contract workers for $2-3 an hour)

But OpenAI is not such a firm. It's a general AI company.

Re: Meta in row after workers who saw smart glasses users having sex lose jobs

#187

Post by applfanboysbgon »

stronglikedan wrote: post #41
I_am_tiberius wrote: post #28

Not a fan of regulation in general, but would love to see a ban of cameras on glasses used in public spaces.

Why? What's the difference between that and one of the many, many concealed camera options that you don't even notice? Just that it's noticeable? I don't think that's a good enough reason for yet-more-regulation. You're already being recorded everywhere you go in public by the authorities, and often by people standing right next to you unnoticed, so just act accordingly.

> What's the difference between that and one of the many, many concealed camera options that you don't even notice?

The latter is literally illegal, at least in my country and I hope in any civilized country. If your point is that there's no difference between glasses and other forms of creep cams and the glasses should be illegal too, I concur!

Re: Meta in row after workers who saw smart glasses users having sex lose jobs

#188

Post by throwpoaster »

talkingtab wrote: post #18

Meta said the contracting "did not meet (meta's) standards". I am sure that is true. meta's "standard" is not to reveal the illegal, immoral, unethical things meta does. No matter what the harm. Maybe a company with those standards should not get our business. Oops, no wait, maybe they mean the Friedman Doctrine standards? In that case they are entitled to do any and every thing to make a profit. No matter what the h…

That's not what the Friedman Doctrine is, technically. It is that management should obey moral, ethical, and legal frameworks in the operation of the business for the benefit of its investors; and specifically NOT take actions which are outside of that narrow scope.

Re: Meta in row after workers who saw smart glasses users having sex lose jobs

#189

Post by [deleted] »

2ndorderthought wrote: post #165
jaidhyani wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to work for Meta. I quit largely because of intense frustrations with the company. Meta has made a lot of mistakes, overlooked a lot of harms, and made a lot of short-sighted, selfish choices. Many things about the world are worse than they could be because of choices Meta has made. So that when I say that they really do have a zero tolerance policy for anyone using their internal systems to violate user priva…

Yea but no. Meta is a defense contractor that hires out to 3rd parties exactly to do this. so you guys don't get to do that, but a lot of other people are. I hope that helped you sleep at night while you were there. But yea, it all gets bought and sold at the end of the day. The irony is meta wants to implement verification to protect kids. Meanwhile it's doing everything it can to exploit them most at every single l…

[deleted]
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