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Mozilla's opposition to Chrome's Prompt API

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Re: Mozilla's opposition to Chrome's Prompt API

#181

Post by MisterTea »

john_strinlai wrote: post #154
MisterTea wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is the most important point, I thought Google people are smart enough to see it. Google just points towards the money like other bacterium and beats its flagella until it gets there. I don't know why or how anyone would EVER think Google is going to do something good for the web or humanity.

> I don't know why or how anyone would EVER think Google is going to do something good for the web or humanity. i dislike google as much as the next guy, but sometimes it can be good to remember that actual humans work at google. some of them want to improve things for people. some of them even have a conscience. one immediate "good" that comes to mind, from google, is the project zero team.

[flagged]

Re: Mozilla's opposition to Chrome's Prompt API

#182

Post by Izkata »

dannyw wrote: post #57
darkwater wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which Internet did make better?

You remember the IE days right? Being a web developer was not fun; and the web was absolutely being held back. Chrome did a lot of things right: per-origin sandboxing, properly implementing web standards, V8, developer tools, and back then Chromium was super close to Chrome. Do I think Chrome is a net-negative for the web over the past ~3-5 years? Yes, especially with manifest v3, “privacy sandbox”, and them basicall…

Developer tools, at least, came through Firefox with Firebug, years before Chrome/Chromium existed.

Re: Mozilla's opposition to Chrome's Prompt API

#183

Post by mrguyorama »

kilroy123 wrote: post #48
tomashubelbauer wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IME young people mostly hate AI.

The young kids I know who are into tech love AI. Albeit this is from a small sample size.

What does "into tech" even mean at this point?

Watching LTT all day? Playing on their iPhones constantly? Buying wireless earbuds?

Re: Mozilla's opposition to Chrome's Prompt API

#184

Post by john_strinlai »

MisterTea wrote: post #181
john_strinlai wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't know why or how anyone would EVER think Google is going to do something good for the web or humanity. i dislike google as much as the next guy, but sometimes it can be good to remember that actual humans work at google. some of them want to improve things for people. some of them even have a conscience. one immediate "good" that comes to mind, from google, is the project zero team.

[flagged]

i thought my point was pretty clear.

google can (and has) done good things for the web and humanity. there are people working there that actively try to do things that are a net positive to society.

they do a lot of shit, too. and i have no qualms with calling that out. but categorical statements of google being incapable of anything good, at all, ever, are not well thought out positions. only people who have let their hatred blind them to reality would believe that in earnest.

comparing google to auschwitz is ridiculously insulting and insensitive to the families who suffered there.

Re: Mozilla's opposition to Chrome's Prompt API

#186

Post by vehemenz »

righthand wrote: post #114

So we can’t have XSLT fast and efficient templating syntax but Prompt APIs with potential attack injection vectors are cool as long as they’re generic enough for all megacorps to drop in? No security risks here huh? Not trying to increase the attack surface huh?

Don't forget MathML and all the other features they gave up on

Re: Mozilla's opposition to Chrome's Prompt API

#187

Post by zamalek »

anthonyrstevens wrote: post #173
zamalek wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI massively empowers people who are incapable of anything except bikeshedding. It itself is very likely to be a bikeshed (but there are legitimate uses), and it also gives them to power to drone on until they overpower any opposition to their useless ideas. Everything is increasingly expected to gain bikesheds. Can't wait for the CVEs.

>> people who are incapable of anything except bikeshedding The amount of insulting language directed at people who actually have an open mind about AI and AI tooling is frustrating. Can you all just please address the merits of the topic of the post instead of making every AI-related post on HN an excuse to vent about your own particular worldview and insult people who don't necessarily agree?

Platform support for AI has as much place in a browser as it does in Notepad. This isn't about being open-minded at all. I have written multiple MCPs, I use it daily, I am not in the crowd who "don't have an open mind." This outright non-feature is a significant source of issues, least of which is fingerprinting.

Make an AI browser extension. Done.

Shoving AI into anything where it can go is not having an open mind about things, it's nothing more shoving AI into anything where it can go.

On the inverse, can you provide a single reason why this API should exist which is isn't something that obviously erupted from an LLM? Again:

> Browsers and operating systems are increasingly expected to gain access to language models.

God help people if they have to copy their prompt from ChatGPT to Claude.

Re: Mozilla's opposition to Chrome's Prompt API

#188

Post by beepbooptheory »

eocjeockoefj wrote: post #160
john_strinlai wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't know why or how anyone would EVER think Google is going to do something good for the web or humanity. i dislike google as much as the next guy, but sometimes it can be good to remember that actual humans work at google. some of them want to improve things for people. some of them even have a conscience. one immediate "good" that comes to mind, from google, is the project zero team.

It doesn’t really matter what the people working there want. It matters what the higher ups say, as they control the cash flow and consequently where resources are spent. And, surprise surprise, the higher ups are generally the ones fucking things up because they also need to see those numbers and lines go up, regardless of actual impact on people’s lives. So yeah, there surely are good people working for Google, but…

Seems like the only thing rational to do then is for the human beings working there to use their labor as leverage.

Re: Mozilla's opposition to Chrome's Prompt API

#189

Post by pseudalopex »

dabockster wrote: post #162
codedokode wrote: post #134

I am against this. 1) This will be a new source of fingerprinting information and this is difficult to fake to fool fingerprinting scripts, so it can be abused for "device verification". There should be no ability to "verify" a browser, and anyone should be able to emulate any browser. This is the most important point, I thought Google people are smart enough to see it. 2) LLMs use lot of memory and CPU time, for man…

> There should be no ability to "verify" a browser, and anyone should be able to emulate any browser. Hard disagree. The AI industry has absolutely shredded the various anti-scraping and anti-botting social contracts that were in place prior to the covid pandemic. Like it's now common knowledge that robots.txt isn't a hard requirement and can be avoided entirely, for example. They have absolutely turned the open web…

> we all did this to ourselves

We meant who?

Re: Mozilla's opposition to Chrome's Prompt API

#190

Post by doublerabbit »

anthonyrstevens wrote: post #168
eocjeockoefj wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn’t really matter what the people working there want. It matters what the higher ups say, as they control the cash flow and consequently where resources are spent. And, surprise surprise, the higher ups are generally the ones fucking things up because they also need to see those numbers and lines go up, regardless of actual impact on people’s lives. So yeah, there surely are good people working for Google, but…

So is it reasonable and helpful to see the same comments over and over again any time Google/Microsoft/OpenAI/Meta is mentioned in a comment - "X is bad, money drives all their decisions, they are anti-user, etc. etc." or should we actually expect to see relevant comments discussing the topic at hand? It's inane and annoying to have to wade through the same, predictable, might-as-well-be-copy-and-paste comments on ev…

Nothing myself, a great innovation but with wet teagbags google/microsoft/apple et cetera running the show. How is Digital ID going?
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