100% agree. My wife is doing her best to change this habit haha.
Maladaptive Frugality
181–190 of 322 posts
Re: Maladaptive Frugality
#182Earlier quoted context omitted.
> After my last job in tech I took about a half a year off before realizing I also felt guilty about not working, and took a job I wanted Well, yeah, that's kind of the problem. If you're the kind of person who can FIRE, you're not the kind of person who'll be happy on permanent vacation at the age of 40. It's nice to have that option, but many people who get into FIRE commit themselves to a lifetime of slight misery…
> I'd rather enjoy my life in my 20s than save money to do nothing in my 40s. I think this is a lie that people who are bad with money tell themselves, that the only two options available are to spend without restraint or live miserably frugal.
> that the only two options available are to spend without restraint or live miserably frugal
When did I say that? I have a 35% savings rate and still am able to spend happily. The point is that you don't need to aim to retire early. Set a target savings rate, spend the rest - enjoy your life instead of trying to maximize savings so you can retire early.
Re: Maladaptive Frugality
#183I struggle with this. I feel so guilty for replacing my four year old phone this week, even though my old phone has had hardware issues for more than a year. There wasn't really a puritanical element for me, it seems to be just from growing below the poverty line. The flip side of it is I've accidentally joined the FIRE movement. Making a moderate tech salary for most of my time since graduating college but feeling g…
> After my last job in tech I took about a half a year off before realizing I also felt guilty about not working, and took a job I wanted Well, yeah, that's kind of the problem. If you're the kind of person who can FIRE, you're not the kind of person who'll be happy on permanent vacation at the age of 40. It's nice to have that option, but many people who get into FIRE commit themselves to a lifetime of slight misery…
Can I ask, how old are you now? I notice this sort of 'black and white' thinking in a lot of younger folks. You don't have to live like a miser (especially in tech!) to be able to FIRE. You simply have to be disciplined and consistently save and invest instead of trying to keep up with the Joneses.
I admit, I was probably more frugal in my 20's than I should have been, but 40 something me is very grateful to 20 something me, and honestly my life is so much more stress free now.
Re: Maladaptive Frugality
#184I struggle with this. I feel so guilty for replacing my four year old phone this week, even though my old phone has had hardware issues for more than a year. There wasn't really a puritanical element for me, it seems to be just from growing below the poverty line. The flip side of it is I've accidentally joined the FIRE movement. Making a moderate tech salary for most of my time since graduating college but feeling g…
> After my last job in tech I took about a half a year off before realizing I also felt guilty about not working, and took a job I wanted Well, yeah, that's kind of the problem. If you're the kind of person who can FIRE, you're not the kind of person who'll be happy on permanent vacation at the age of 40. It's nice to have that option, but many people who get into FIRE commit themselves to a lifetime of slight misery…
>If you're the kind of person who can FIRE, you're not the kind of person who'll be happy on permanent vacation at the age of 40.
Why do you think so? Some people just have more/less expensive tastes and wants than others.
Re: Maladaptive Frugality
#185Earlier quoted context omitted.
> After my last job in tech I took about a half a year off before realizing I also felt guilty about not working, and took a job I wanted Well, yeah, that's kind of the problem. If you're the kind of person who can FIRE, you're not the kind of person who'll be happy on permanent vacation at the age of 40. It's nice to have that option, but many people who get into FIRE commit themselves to a lifetime of slight misery…
Can I ask, how old are you now? I notice this sort of 'black and white' thinking in a lot of younger folks. You don't have to live like a miser (especially in tech!) to be able to FIRE. You simply have to be disciplined and consistently save and invest instead of trying to keep up with the Joneses. I admit, I was probably more frugal in my 20's than I should have been, but 40 something me is very grateful to 20 somet…
You're the fifth person to assume me being against FIRE means you should burn all your money, which is kind of the problem with the mindset!
Re: Maladaptive Frugality
#186Earlier quoted context omitted.
> After my last job in tech I took about a half a year off before realizing I also felt guilty about not working, and took a job I wanted Well, yeah, that's kind of the problem. If you're the kind of person who can FIRE, you're not the kind of person who'll be happy on permanent vacation at the age of 40. It's nice to have that option, but many people who get into FIRE commit themselves to a lifetime of slight misery…
>If you're the kind of person who can FIRE, you're not the kind of person who'll be happy on permanent vacation at the age of 40. Why do you think so? Some people just have more/less expensive tastes and wants than others.
Not because your tastes are expensive, but because you'll want to do productive work well into that time frame.
Re: Maladaptive Frugality
#187Earlier quoted context omitted.
> You either have to be a medical professional/media person now to live without worry. No, you just need to live within your means. The internet is amazing, I like to watch videos from developing nations, where people live on a fraction of western budgets... what strikes me is the happy, free people I see. That's hard to fake.
What you see is the happy side of things, of a particular section of society, packaged in a way to make the viewers feel good and not sad. They’re either too poor and uneducated or too rich. Most of us, educated, are aware of the fact that we are one medical emergency away from being bankrupt. > No, you just need to live within your means. I politely disagree. Means for me personally includes not worrying about healt…
> What you see is [...] packaged in a way to make the viewers feel good and not sad.
Maybe. Or maybe they are genuinely young, free, and happy.
> Most of us, educated, are aware of the fact that we are one medical emergency away from being bankrupt.
Yes, but being aware of your mortality is inextricably linked to the human experience. Not a bug, a feature.
> Means for me personally includes not worrying about healthcare, losing a job, unexpected expenses, affording the facilities to participate in society rather than becoming a travelling nomad.
My friend, I do not know your circumstances so I venture carefully. Your reply seems to be focused on risk, rather than what a person can control by their own behavior. Risk is a part of life - we all have different tolerance of risk. What I mean by "live within your means" is to spend less than you earn. I understand the difficulties, but it is not impossible. I have been in poverty in my life, and I feel fortunate that we were able to escape it.
> People, educated ones, are no longer marrying. Guess why?
I have my own theories, but I'd be happy to know yours
Re: Maladaptive Frugality
#188Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I'd rather enjoy my life in my 20s than save money to do nothing in my 40s. I think this is a lie that people who are bad with money tell themselves, that the only two options available are to spend without restraint or live miserably frugal.
Age is a thing, can't do as many of the fun physical things when you're a lot older Aging is a nasty thing ugh, the way your bones get weak and your spine curls and you see old people hunched looking down at the ground when they walk
The truth is that there are some things better experienced in younger years. I can't imagine backpacking across Europe is better in your 50's than it would be in your 20's, and if you're doing something with a chance of injury, you bounce back a lot faster the younger you are.
But I really think you're underestimating how active even the average 70 year old retiree can be.
Re: Maladaptive Frugality
#189Frugality is a state of mind, feeling guilty about it is not a frugality problem more than a labeling one.
It's the same for climate change, a lot of people want to feel good about themselves labeling them ecological when they're not capable to act on it (eating less meat, avoiding to take an airplane to travel, ..etc). They feel guilty not because of 'it' but because they don't want to act about something they reason is the morally good choice. It's performative virtue signalling.
As a general rule I don't think you can label yourself as anything (eg. a liberal, an anarchist, a frugal, a skeptic, a believer, a punk, ..etc). You either are or you aren't. Chasing a label and an identity is the best way to never be it like a perfume wearing you rather than you wearing it.
Re: Maladaptive Frugality
#190Earlier quoted context omitted.
> After my last job in tech I took about a half a year off before realizing I also felt guilty about not working, and took a job I wanted Well, yeah, that's kind of the problem. If you're the kind of person who can FIRE, you're not the kind of person who'll be happy on permanent vacation at the age of 40. It's nice to have that option, but many people who get into FIRE commit themselves to a lifetime of slight misery…
> I'd rather enjoy my life in my 20s than save money to do nothing in my 40s. I think this is a lie that people who are bad with money tell themselves, that the only two options available are to spend without restraint or live miserably frugal.
"Miserable" is subjective obviously. If you're regularly working evenings and weekends at your high paying law firm, I'd characterize that as miserable. If you're living cheaply in some exurban place but can only see your friends or family twice a week, I'd characterize that as miserable. But I can't speak to anyone else's state of mind.