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Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#181

Post by sir0010010 »

unethical_ban wrote: post #101
gcanyon wrote: post #16

There are two separate issues here: 1. will this work (will the UK stop smoking) 2. is this something the UK government should be doing Setting aside 1 and looking at 2, it seems silly to me to point out that other things (alcohol) that cause problems and are not being restricted. You take the wins where you find them, and the government isn't a magical force that can impose its will on the people arbitrarily. This i…

My suspicion is that alcohol is mind-altering in ways smoking is not, and has a large effect on social interactions in business and romance and coping with the drudgery of daily life. Take away smoking from the next generation and they move to caffeine or vapes. Take away alcohol and there are revolutions and religious extremist revivals.

Taking away smoking still solves the secondhand smoke issue.

Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#182

Post by Findecanor »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #53
subjectsigma wrote: post #50

Natural consequence of socialized medicine. If I’m paying for your healthcare then I (and by extension the state) get a say in basically every aspect of your life. Time to ban alcohol, marijuana, Tylenol, fatty foods, sugar, candles, campfires, fireworks, food coloring, bicycles, playgrounds, cars, cell phones, and anything else that might be harmful

In the UK tobacco is heavily taxed and those taxes bring in more money than the cost on the healthcare service.

You can not put a price on human suffering.

Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#183

Post by cucumber3732842 »

sailfast wrote: post #161
azangru wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. will this work (will the UK stop smoking) What mechanisms do you foresee for it to fail? If stores stop selling cigarettes, the UK will have no other choice but to stop smoking them. I wonder what will come to replace them though. People have a peculiar tendency of forming addictive habits. Regarding question 2, personally, I am uncomfortable with the idea of a nanny state.

Is weed legal in the UK? Do people still smoke it? This might play right into the hands of bootleggers and gangs but also into the Swedish / American nicotine pouch industry which is basically marketing straight at kids. Also - vapes. Most folks don’t smoke cigarettes anymore. How does this control vaping?

That's exactly what this is. The money has moved on to pouches and vapes.

It's like how everyone pat themselves on the back for banning child labor after the industrial revolution had rendered it obsolete outside a few niches that weren't economically important enough to put up a real fight.

Politicians "win" by pandering to voters and interests. So this is an obvious move since they can pander to all those people who grew up being told a cigarette takes a minute off your life while only pissing off some niche industry and a few smokers who are unwilling to vape.

Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#184

Post by stevekemp »

joegibbs wrote: post #6

Drinking has been decided to be totally fine though, no need to ban that - probably because it's unfashionable to smoke, and the kind of people who come up with these laws find it uncouth. It will also be ridiculous in a few years when the UK inevitably decides to legalise marijuana - totally fine to smoke a joint, but don't you dare put any of that tobacco in it!

Prohibition (of alcohol) wouldn't work, but over time the government has raised alcohol duty rates:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/alcohol-duty-rates

That cuts down on drinking, except for the alcoholics of course. Scotland also imposed a minimum price per unit on alcohol, in an attempt to further cut consumption:

https://www.gov.scot/policies/alcohol-and-drugs/minimum-unit...

Whether that works is an open question, but in the UK things like "the sugar tax" have a visible affect on consumer consumption rates of "bad things".

Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#185

Post by olalonde »

jblezo wrote: post #151
olalonde wrote: post #78

What about tourists and foreigners? Most smokers can't go more than a few hours without smoking... This will surely lead to a large black market.

Easy: anyone who cannot submit to the law of a country should not go there.

It will probably be a bit of both: a large black market and a decline in foreign visitors, international conferences, and similar events.

Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#186

Post by projektfu »

alsetmusic wrote: post #33

As a former smoker (who quit for seven years and regrets taking it up again), and as a present-day vape user, wtf. This is a clear restriction on liberty. It may be stupid that I do it. Just like many stupid decisions (junk food included), it ought to be my right to decide how to live. Cut off production so cigarettes are no longer made or imported. Don't block me from them while letting others have them. (Not in UK)…

It's a restriction on liberty but not an unjustified one. I agree that it gives cigarettes a "mystique" that they do not deserve to have one generation able to smoke if they like while another generation has to go outside the law to do so.

When I was a smoker, I used to decry places that were less liberal about where I was allowed to smoke, and places with high taxes. As a former smoker, I know that the high taxes have enabled a lot of people to stop, and the restrictions got to a point where smoking was less "cool" and more "pariah" behavior. These influences helped me stop.

If you didn't read "The Easy Way to Stop Smoking", go do so, and smoke/vape no more.

If everyone appreciated how little value they receive from tobacco/nicotine and how easy it really is to quit, there would be no market.

Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#187

Post by DicIfTEx »

slibhb wrote: post #153
FL33TW00D wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a country with a national health system, why should you be able to internalize the benefit of smoking whilst externalizing the cost?

You could use this logic to ban unhealthy foods, or restrict people from eating too much.

https://www.diabetes.org.uk/about-us/news-and-views/junk-foo...

https://www.newfoodmagazine.com/government-bans-high-sugar-a...

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/soft-drink-levy-extended-...

Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#188

Post by mock-possum »

olalonde wrote: post #78

What about tourists and foreigners? Most smokers can't go more than a few hours without smoking... This will surely lead to a large black market.

Why not just get your nicotine fix via one of the handful of other delivery methods which are not banned? Or just find a local black market doggie hookup, same as you would for any other illegal substance?

If you’re a pothead who can’t make it through your day without a smoke, then god knows you’ll find a connect - and if you’re addicted to cigarettes, I’m pretty sure you won’t have much trouble getting your fix.

Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#189

Post by Gud »

sailfast wrote: post #161
azangru wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. will this work (will the UK stop smoking) What mechanisms do you foresee for it to fail? If stores stop selling cigarettes, the UK will have no other choice but to stop smoking them. I wonder what will come to replace them though. People have a peculiar tendency of forming addictive habits. Regarding question 2, personally, I am uncomfortable with the idea of a nanny state.

Is weed legal in the UK? Do people still smoke it? This might play right into the hands of bootleggers and gangs but also into the Swedish / American nicotine pouch industry which is basically marketing straight at kids. Also - vapes. Most folks don’t smoke cigarettes anymore. How does this control vaping?

There is a big difference between weed and tobacco.

I am a fairly regular weed smoker. I used to grow my own. I used to smoke tobacco. I can go weeks, months and even years without smoking weed. Kicking my nicotine habit took many, many, many tries and I didn't even enjoy it! They are not the same.

Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#190

Post by clickety_clack »

I think that banning smoking in public places makes sense because you are impacting other people. I think banning things for kids makes sense because it’s a big wide world and it’s our duty to protect them. I’m not a fan of banning the things that a grown adult can do when it only affects them personally, however much I despise smoking. Since when have people decided that giving up personal liberty is fine. If you want to look 15 years older with gross teeth, horrible smell and die at 60, it’s kind of up to you.
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