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Palantir Wants to Reinstate the Draft

reason.com

181–190 of 252 posts

Re: Palantir Wants to Reinstate the Draft

#182

Other countries have compulsory military service, for example Finland. Generally speaking I am a fan of the idea that everyone should be required to do some kind of community service for 2 years once they turn 18. Military service would just be one option, could be other kinds of civic engagement. This can really help people feel connected to their society and understand that there is something to show up for. BUT -…

When's the last time Finland or Switzerland attacked or invaded another country? People are willing to engage in compulsory military service if they feel that it's truly meant to help the country defend itself from actual attack, not potentially being shipped off somewhere to serve some political or economic goal.

Re: Palantir Wants to Reinstate the Draft

#184

Other countries have compulsory military service, for example Finland. Generally speaking I am a fan of the idea that everyone should be required to do some kind of community service for 2 years once they turn 18. Military service would just be one option, could be other kinds of civic engagement. This can really help people feel connected to their society and understand that there is something to show up for. BUT -…

Finland doesn't have compulsory military service to help people feel connected to their society. Feeling connected to one's society is not an end in itself, people should be free to choose how connected they want to feel. Finland has compulsory military service because it's a small country that borders Russia. The US is a big country that borders Canada and Mexico.

Yeah, if anyone maybe needs compulsory service, it's Mexico and Canada (to protect against the threat of the US), not the US.

Re: Palantir Wants to Reinstate the Draft

#187
Whatever its other merits or demerits, reinstating the draft would cut back on needless wars. Abandoning the draft is what ended the anti-war movement, and to reinstate it would be to revive those protests. For this reason, if nothing else, it probably won't be reinstated.

What this has to do with the argument Palantir is apparently making, I have no idea. I can't make any sense of it.

Re: Palantir Wants to Reinstate the Draft

#188
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who's going to pay for that?

Taxpayers in non-failed states like Finland that are able to provide astoundingly high quality of life for their citizens while also providing a strong military that is based around mandatory national service. Finland has been rated the happiest country in the world what, eight or nine years in a row now and was able to secure they borders against a overwhelmingly more capable neighbour with no participation in a mut…

While the majority of Finns speak highly of their conscription system, there's also an understanding that it's propped up by Finland's unique history and place in the world. I think people are seriously naive as to how much shit the Finnish people have suffered over the last millenia, and how that has contextualized their modern existence.

> Finland has been rated the happiest country in the world

"Tilastollinen onnellisuus" is a concept relentlessly mocked by Finns. Finns are very proud of their country, but many are also very quick to call it a shithole, to engage in valittaminen, and for good reason. Their love for it is practically an expression of sisu. The contradiction of it being an absolute dreg of a swamp populated by insufferable FINNS, yet they would all agree to throw their life away to defend it anyways, is not a situation that was conjured out of thin air with some clever social policies and progressive tax reform.

Re: Palantir Wants to Reinstate the Draft

#189

Other countries have compulsory military service, for example Finland. Generally speaking I am a fan of the idea that everyone should be required to do some kind of community service for 2 years once they turn 18. Military service would just be one option, could be other kinds of civic engagement. This can really help people feel connected to their society and understand that there is something to show up for. BUT -…

> what are American soldiers dying for? The American way of life, which is still the most preferred way of life, as evidenced by (a) people wanting to emigrate here more than any other country in the world and (b) more people immigrating here than any other country.

you actually believe this? that American soldiers dying in Afghanistan, Iraq, Vietnam, etc., were actually preserving the "American way of life" (whatever that means)??

And if it were true (which it isn't), if enjoying the "American way of life" requires killing people in other countries, then it's probably not a very good way of life.

Re: Palantir Wants to Reinstate the Draft

#190
Even though the title of the Reason article is "Palantir Wants to Reinstate the Draft", suggesting that point 6 is what the Reason editorial staff found most striking about their manifesto, the actual text of what Palantir wrote about conscription is:

> 6. National service should be a universal duty. We should, as a society, seriously consider moving away from an all-volunteer force and only fight the next war if everyone shares in the risk and the cost.

which is actually more of a hedge than most of their other points. "National service should be a universal duty" is vague enough to be compatible with a few different concrete policies. And "seriously consider" moving away from an all-volunteer force is rather different from a specific recommendation to literally re-instate the draft! I suspect that the people inside Palantir responsible for this copy are close enough to the actual military that they're aware of the good arguments for why an all-volunteer military is more effective at achieving its goals than one with a bunch of draftees who really don't want to be there.

And because Palantir frames this point as a way to make "everyone share[...] in the risk and the cost" of wars, there's actually quite a lot of measured agreement even here in this HN thread full of people who dislike Palantir in general. Making everyone share in the risk and the cost of wars does have emotional resonance that makes people a bit less reflexively opposed to bringing back the draft than they might otherwise be.

Anyway, I'm against mandatory national service. The US military works well as an all-volunteer force, the US government is perfectly capable of hiring people at a wage to do other types of national service work, and I don't think it's actually socially desirable to force every US citizen to do some amount of mandatory, low-quality work to make them feel connected to the rest of society or whatever other vague benefit people think it would have on the citizenry at large. I'm also skeptical that mandatory service would involve enough young people actually entering combat roles against their will, to incentivize meaningful change to how the US uses its military in the world.

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