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Books are not too expensive

millersbookreview.com

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Re: Books are not too expensive

#181

Post by WillAdams »

bombcar wrote: post #175
WillAdams wrote: post #136

One thing not mentioned in this article, and which doesn't seem to be discussed much these days is how the tax law changed to essentially eliminate the backlist (which was unsold copies of a book from the initial print run stored in a warehouse). Time was, an initial print run would be quite large, and books would then be stored and taxes deferred until they were actually sold --- when the law changed, requiring that…

> the law changed, requiring that taxes be paid on unsold inventory each year, these warehouses became a tax liability How exactly did the law change? I can see them costing as an expense in the year published and not counted as revenue until sold (that's a "tax advantage") - but having to pay tax each year on inventory? That's more than just removing a tax advantage.

My understanding (I am not an accountant or lawyer and this is not legal advice, but a layman's uncertain organic memory) is that it was just that:

- old law: tax is deferred until item is sold

- new law: tax is owed on property in inventory each year until sold

There were hearings on Congress and Librarians holding marches protesting the bill, but it all seems to have faded away into obscurity and the new status quo.

Re: Books are not too expensive

#182

Post by so-cal-schemer »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #172
so-cal-schemer wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

San Francisco Public Library [0] is the best resource for readers in California. Of all the libraries in the state, I've found they are the most likely to acquire new titles, and often they are the only holder if the subject is particularly niche and technical. Even most university libraries are switching to digital collections *which can't be loaned out* . One reason I say SFPL is great for all^H^H^H many California…

My point was not whether $35/year per person on books is a lot or a little. I was responding to a comment where someone suggested libraries were a way to avoid high book prices. But they're not! Libraries themselves (and by extension, taxpayers) suffer from high book prices. Separately, would you mind explaining this part, as I'm not familiar with university libraries: "Even most university libraries are switching to…

Yes. I've found criteria for new books at public libraries to be very limiting. They usually will only acquire newly published books (published within a year or so). But they do get a discount from the publisher, perhaps 30%.

Basically, they will buy books that nobody's had a chance to review yet or talk about, but won't buy books published a year ago that everyone cites and recommends. It's a broken policy.

I'd say it is a way to avoid the high cost of books tho, in that they are a shared resource. Dozens of people may check out a single copy within a year. E-books at public libraries are more accessible, but only a finite number of copies may be accessed by patrons at a time - less accessible than you might think. Additionally, e-books are not owned, but leased. And the cost is substantial and comparable to the cost of a physical copy, and re-paid every few years.

Another way libraries avoid the cost of new books is by relying on other libraries to expand their collection. When my local library joined LINK+, for instance, they substantially decreased the amount of new books they would acquire, and it's stripping influence from the individual patron. Good luck borrowing a copy of Laws of Software Engineering [0] anywhere. Or Crafting Interpreters [1].

As far as university collections go, most have large libraries with huge collections that are available to borrow - somehow. But most of the books are very old. The new acquisitions are primarily digital and may only be accessed through a locked terminal or web portal. Whether the general public has access varies and often costs quite a bit or is free for the immediate community.

Here is info on borrowing at a few:

https://www.lib.berkeley.edu/find/borrow-renew

($100/yr for CA residents, limited access to the library, no remote access)

https://library.claremont.edu/borrowing/

(limited to nearby county residents, but free. no remote access or ebooks)

https://library.stanford.edu/about-stanford-libraries/visito...

(range of options: $1000/yr to $35/two-weeks, remote unclear)

I have had some luck accessing some e-books at some colleges, but for the most part you need to have a login. It really depends on their policies and licensing deals with digital publishers.

[0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47847179

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40950235

Re: Books are not too expensive

#183

Post by bombcar »

WillAdams wrote: post #181
bombcar wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the law changed, requiring that taxes be paid on unsold inventory each year, these warehouses became a tax liability How exactly did the law change? I can see them costing as an expense in the year published and not counted as revenue until sold (that's a "tax advantage") - but having to pay tax each year on inventory? That's more than just removing a tax advantage.

My understanding (I am not an accountant or lawyer and this is not legal advice, but a layman's uncertain organic memory) is that it was just that: - old law: tax is deferred until item is sold - new law: tax is owed on property in inventory each year until sold There were hearings on Congress and Librarians holding marches protesting the bill, but it all seems to have faded away into obscurity and the new status quo…

> - new law: tax is owed on property in inventory each year until sold

This type of "property" tax is very rare except on physical real estate (at least in US) but it might be they did that. If so, it'd destroy the long tail entirely, so much so that I'd think print on demand companies like Amazon were behind the tax bill.

Re: Books are not too expensive

#184

Post by so-cal-schemer »

toast0 wrote: post #180
rahimnathwani wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would the age of the book matter? If it were from a big publisher and they were to publish a new substantially-unchanged edition every three years, why would that make the library willing to consider the book? The book in question is still in print and still available new.

If nobody wanted it in the first 10 years it was available, chances are it's only going to get one circulation if they buy it for you. That's not a great use of the libraries purchase budget or shelf space budget. If they had a copy that wore out and it was circulated many times, they would have reordered it when they discarded it.

That's why it's great that SFPL purchases such a wide variety of books. You can't ILL something if nobody has it.

When I was a teen I got my local library to acquire copies of a number of tech classics:

SICP, K&R, Stevens' TCP/IP Illustrated, ANSI CL, ... all discarded to my everlasting disappointment.

Re: Books are not too expensive

#185

Post by rahimnathwani »

toast0 wrote: post #180
rahimnathwani wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would the age of the book matter? If it were from a big publisher and they were to publish a new substantially-unchanged edition every three years, why would that make the library willing to consider the book? The book in question is still in print and still available new.

If nobody wanted it in the first 10 years it was available, chances are it's only going to get one circulation if they buy it for you. That's not a great use of the libraries purchase budget or shelf space budget. If they had a copy that wore out and it was circulated many times, they would have reordered it when they discarded it.

What do you mean 'no one wanted it'?

Most library users select from the books on the shelf.

That's like saying you shouldn't write a book because no one wanted it in the past, before it existed.

Re: Books are not too expensive

#186

Post by so-cal-schemer »

¿por qué no los dos?

I buy lots of used books, and also access e-books (sometimes the same books).

Mostly I enjoy e-books for use with text-to-speech. If I'm reading a book, I usually am only reading that book and don't need thousands in my device. And I will take that book with me everywhere. However, I also will seek out multiple books to compare and contrast a specific concept simultaneously.

Favorite aspect of e-books: sharing annotations

Favorite aspect of physical books: curious onlookers will strike up conversations

(also, physical books are tangible assets)

Re: Books are not too expensive

#187

Post by mananaysiempre »

carlosjobim wrote: post #166
mananaysiempre wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At some point you just have to move to Ebooks. When I can get a godsdamned file and view it on whatever I want with whatever program I want, sure. But I usually can’t.

Can you do that with a physical book?

Mu? With a book I’m not bound to a technologically complex device I can’t repair, let alone to somebody’s willingness to maintain a remotely accessible database somewhere on another continent. At worst, I can mount a camera above my desk on a microphone arm and fire up ScanTailor. Even if it’s amazingly tedious work.

Re: Books are not too expensive

#189

Post by toast0 »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #185
toast0 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If nobody wanted it in the first 10 years it was available, chances are it's only going to get one circulation if they buy it for you. That's not a great use of the libraries purchase budget or shelf space budget. If they had a copy that wore out and it was circulated many times, they would have reordered it when they discarded it.

What do you mean 'no one wanted it'? Most library users select from the books on the shelf. That's like saying you shouldn't write a book because no one wanted it in the past, before it existed.

Nobody requested it => no one wanted it.

Re: Books are not too expensive

#190

Post by so-cal-schemer »

so-cal-schemer wrote: post #184
toast0 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If nobody wanted it in the first 10 years it was available, chances are it's only going to get one circulation if they buy it for you. That's not a great use of the libraries purchase budget or shelf space budget. If they had a copy that wore out and it was circulated many times, they would have reordered it when they discarded it.

That's why it's great that SFPL purchases such a wide variety of books. You can't ILL something if nobody has it. When I was a teen I got my local library to acquire copies of a number of tech classics: SICP, K&R, Stevens' TCP/IP Illustrated, ANSI CL, ... all discarded to my everlasting disappointment.

Books like these approach $100 new. That's a lot of money for someone in high school.
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