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Bring Back Idiomatic Design (2023)

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Re: Bring Back Idiomatic Design (2023)

#181

Post by layer8 »

debugnik wrote: post #179
layer8 wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand what difference you are seeing. On the desktop you would have a UI button as well, and likewise a key on the keyboard. The difference I’m referring to is that Ctrl+Enter is arguably acceptable on the desktop, but has no equivalent on touch keyboards on mobile. Regarding the UI button, the way many people chat they would consider it too much friction to have to tap a button above the keyboard for ev…

No one uses the UI button to send a message on the desktop though. Everyone just presses Return to send, which is the most common need, and then once in a while realise they need to enter a newline without sending, for which there isn't a button so they need to learn how. Mobile doesn't necessarily have this issue because it can show the send button and the newline button at the same time and they're equally accessib…

Actually, I do. Or at least I do in very similar situations where for some reason there is no keyboard shortcut to submit from the input field, so I press Tab (which moves the keyboard focus to the submit button next to the text field) and then press Return or Space to press the UI button.

Regarding on mobile, I’m familiar with chat apps that require a UI button press to send, and consider it unnecessary friction. It’s a larger mental leap to have to leave the keyboard.

Re: Bring Back Idiomatic Design (2023)

#182

Post by suzzer99 »

teeray wrote: post #12

> There are hundreds of ways that different websites ask you to pick dates Ugh, date pickers. So many of these violently throw up when I try to do the obvious thing: type in the damn date. Instead they force me to click through their inane menu, as if the designer wanted to force me into a showcase of their work. Let your power users type. Just call your user’s attention back to the field if they accidentally typed 0…

Date pickers are the absolute worst. It blows my mind we don't have a clean standard by now.

The best is when a site uses the exact same date picker for birthdate as for some date in the future. Yes, I'd love to click backward 50 years to get to my birthdate. Thank you for reminding me how old I am.

Re: Bring Back Idiomatic Design (2023)

#183

Post by nickcoury »

I reference Jakob's Law at least once a week, which says users use not your site most of the time. So if it works like most other sites then users will intuitively understand it. And if you do something different users will struggle to learn it.

Re: Bring Back Idiomatic Design (2023)

#184

Post by userbinator »

button is clearly visually a button

I had the pleasure of using a web app a few years ago that somehow managed to have buttons that looked like buttons, buttons that looked like static text, static text that looked like static text, and static text that looked like buttons, all on the same page. It was very memorable and extremely confusing to use.

    Checkboxes are square,
    Radiobuttons are round,
    Beware those who dare
    To switch them around

Re: Bring Back Idiomatic Design (2023)

#185

Post by suzzer99 »

RobotToaster wrote: post #52
nkrisc wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is 03/04/2026 March 4th or the 3rd of April? If you have an international audience that’s going to mess someone up. Better yet require YYYY-MM-DD.

is automatically formatted based on the user's locale.

Input type=date also just saves the day, month and year with no timezone information, which makes sense since the widget doesn't show any and context determines if the date should be in the user's timezone or a fixed timezone (like an event start date or a flight departure). But if you don't immediately convert that date to an ISO date and instead save it to the DB as yyyymmdd, you're in for a world of hurt trying to display date/times throughout the site. I inherited a project like this and have spent countless hours wrestling with nightmare timezone issues.

Re: Bring Back Idiomatic Design (2023)

#186

Post by debugnik »

layer8 wrote: post #181
debugnik wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one uses the UI button to send a message on the desktop though. Everyone just presses Return to send, which is the most common need, and then once in a while realise they need to enter a newline without sending, for which there isn't a button so they need to learn how. Mobile doesn't necessarily have this issue because it can show the send button and the newline button at the same time and they're equally accessib…

Actually, I do. Or at least I do in very similar situations where for some reason there is no keyboard shortcut to submit from the input field, so I press Tab (which moves the keyboard focus to the submit button next to the text field) and then press Return or Space to press the UI button. Regarding on mobile, I’m familiar with chat apps that require a UI button press to send, and consider it unnecessary friction. It…

> It’s a larger mental leap to have to leave the keyboard.

I find this interesting! I've never considered myself "leaving the keyboard" on the phone as if I were task switching. When I'm done typing I flow directly to the send button and let the keyboard go. The fact that the button is above the keyboard makes no difference to me as long as it stays accessible.

Re: Bring Back Idiomatic Design (2023)

#187

Post by trueno »

hermitcrab wrote: post #146
pkphilip wrote: post #6

UX has really gone downhill. This is particularly true of banking websites. Also, the trend of hiding scrollbars, huge wasted spaces, making buttons look really flat, confusing icons, confusing ways of using drop downs rather than using the select/option html controls etc have all made the whole experience far inferior to where desktop UI was even decades ago

Hiding scrollbars is a deeply annoying trend. I don't understand the rationale. Because someone thought it looks aesthetically cooler?

mobile first philosophies is my guess.

...curious who decided seeing scrollbars wasn't useful on mobile though. it's very useful knowing where i am in a long scrolling thing.

Re: Bring Back Idiomatic Design (2023)

#188

Post by suzzer99 »

userbinator wrote: post #184

button is clearly visually a button I had the pleasure of using a web app a few years ago that somehow managed to have buttons that looked like buttons, buttons that looked like static text, static text that looked like static text, and static text that looked like buttons, all on the same page. It was very memorable and extremely confusing to use. Checkboxes are square, Radiobuttons are round, Beware those who dare…

I like how it became uncool about 10 years ago for buttons to provide any feedback that they've been pressed. Thanks Tim Apple!

Re: Bring Back Idiomatic Design (2023)

#189

Post by trueno »

pilingual wrote: post #72

Interesting that Apple is praised. > that a link? Maybe! When Apple transitioned from skeuomorphic to flat design this was a huge issue. It was difficult to determine what was a button on iOS and whether you tapped it (and the removal of loading gifs across platforms further aggravated problems like double submits). Another absurdity with iOS is the number of ways you can gesture. It started simply, now it is complex…

PWA dudes that all want to use some variant of shadcn or whatever same but different flavor of what is effectively the same design language are the more critically dangerous influences on design in my eyes than say apple. apple is highly opinionated on their design frameworks and that, at least, brings consistency. even if it's a dumb change, at least you can expect it everywhere

Re: Bring Back Idiomatic Design (2023)

#190

Post by suzzer99 »

iamcalledrob wrote: post #32
foobarbecue wrote: post #2

Lately I've occasionally been running into round check boxes that look like radio buttons. Why????

iOS decided square checkboxes were ugly, and design patterns are flowing from mobile->desktop these days.

I think Apple does stuff like this because a) they can get away with it and b) they know countless competitors who can't get away with it will blindly follow their shitty new design paradigm.
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