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Gemma 4 on iPhone

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181–190 of 267 posts

Re: Gemma 4 on iPhone

#181

I find it odd they are using the term “edge” to brand this, if it’s target is the general public. I’ve been to a few tech conferences and saw the term used there for the first time. It took me a little bit to see the pattern and understand what it meant. I have never heard the term used outside of those circles. It seems like “local” would be the term average users would be familiar with. Normal people don’t call the…

Funnily enough I work in the security industry and the term is ubiquitous there, so I didn’t even notice it.

Re: Gemma 4 on iPhone

#182
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? That's fascinating. Why is that?

Do you want every malicious idiot in the world to have a competent helper for bioweapons? Or indeed an incompetent but enthusiastic helper accidentally getting them to posion themselves and friends with botox:? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40724283 That is why they were pushed away from this. At least with vibe coded software, errors may prevent compilation, then when we're past that simply bad experiences, b…

Any competent high schooler knows about water activity and sterilization. At least at the fundamental level.

I doubt most models refuse providing recipes without 0 risk of death.

LLMs are —if anything— ridiculously proficient at making random code compile.

What was your point again?

Re: Gemma 4 on iPhone

#186
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you want every malicious idiot in the world to have a competent helper for bioweapons? Or indeed an incompetent but enthusiastic helper accidentally getting them to posion themselves and friends with botox:? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40724283 That is why they were pushed away from this. At least with vibe coded software, errors may prevent compilation, then when we're past that simply bad experiences, b…

Any competent high schooler knows about water activity and sterilization. At least at the fundamental level. I doubt most models refuse providing recipes without 0 risk of death. LLMs are —if anything— ridiculously proficient at making random code compile. What was your point again?

> Any competent high schooler knows about water activity and sterilization. At least at the fundamental level.

Your high school taught you that while olive oil and garlic can be stored in isolation for quite a long time without issue, mixing them creates an anoxic environment which Clostridium botulinum, an obligate anaerobe found almost everywhere in the environment (and in this case the garlic) but not normally in dangerous quantities because of the oxygen in the air, thrives?

The closest my secondary school got to useful warnings about modern environmental hazards were: (1) do not cross railways, (2) electricity is dangerous, (3) do not mix bleaches, (4) wear safety goggles, (5) if you smell gas, open windows, do not flip light switches, and (6) HIV exists (but they didn't mention any other STDs at all). (Well, OK, schools also said "do not run with scissors" and "look both ways before crossing road", but that and similar were more primary school things, and they said "don't do drugs" but they lied about Leah Betts' cause of death).

The cooking classes were basically just "here's how you make a cake" and "here's how you make pastry" (and a teacher asking us to write it up but pretentiously telling us that she hated seeing "I think it tasted quite nice" because all the students always wrote that, but somehow simple thesaurus substitution was enough to satisfy her on that).

> I doubt most models refuse providing recipes without 0 risk of death.

0, like 1, is not a real number in probably. They represent infinity-to-one odds for/against a thing.

More concretely, seat belts and speed limits and minimum tire tread thickness and blood alcohol content are all part of road traffic law, even though all four of them combined still do not lead to "0 risk of death".

> LLMs are —if anything— ridiculously proficient at making random code compile.

Not ridiculously. Interestingly, but not ridiculously. Especially back when the example I linked you to happened, thus leading to the highly visible failure mode necessitating this kind of thing (the red teamers will have seen similar in private testing). You could have "rapidly improving", but with even with the rapid competency time-horizon improvements shown by METR, they're 80% on tasks which take a human 1-2 hours. If that was also true for biological stuff, they're probably currently able to enthusiastically write custom gene sequences that sometimes work, other times are the genetic equivalent of this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47614622

> What was your point again?

LLMs are a power tool with the bare minimum of safety guards for all the normal people using them thoughtlessly, and I'm replying to someone who is surprised that even those minimal basics of guards exist, both for their own sake and the sake of others around them.

Metaphor: a table saw may come with a saw-stop, which means you can't butcher a carcass with it, and people who imagine(!) working as butchers hear this and act surprised that table saws increasingly come with them by default because meat slicers don't.

Re: Gemma 4 on iPhone

#187
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And there's a whole set of ethically-justifiable but rule-flagging conversations (loosely categorizable as things like "sensitive", "ethically-borderline-but-productive" or "violating sacred cows") that are now possible with this, and at a level never before possible until now. I checked the abliterate script and I don't yet understand what it does or what the result is. What are the conversations this enables?

Realistically, a lot of people do this for porn. In my experience, though, it's necessary to do anything security related. Interestingly, the big models have fewer refusals for me when I ask e.g. "in situation, how do you exploit ?", but local models will frequently flat out refuse, unless the model has been abliterated.

With local models there's usually a trivial workaround of prefilling their response so that they have already agreed to do what you ask.

Re: Gemma 4 on iPhone

#188
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> or in the cloud but way more expensive then it is today. Why? It's widely understood that the big players are making profit on inference. The only reason they still have losses is because training is so expensive, but you need to do that no matter whether the models are running in the cloud or on your device. If you think about it, it's always going to be cheaper and more energy-efficient to have dedicated cloud ha…

> It's widely understood that the big players are making profit on inference. This is most definitely not widely understood. We still don't know yet. There's tons of discussions about people disagreeing on whether it really is profitable. Unless you have proof, don't say "this is widely understood".

I recently had Codex working for 80+ hrs non stop (as in literally that was a single running session in response to a single prompt!).

Even at $200 monthly subscription that kind of stuff burns through tokens at a rate where it's very difficult to believe that they are even breaking even, never mind profit.

Re: Gemma 4 on iPhone

#190
post #8

Impressive model, for sure. I've been running it on my Mac, now I get to have it locally in my iPhone? I need to test this. Wait, it does agent skills and mobile actions, all local to the phone? Whaaaat? (Have to check out later! Anyone have any tips yet?) I don't normally do the whole "abliterated" thing (dealignment) but after discovering https://github.com/p-e-w/heretic , I was too tempted to try it with this mode…

I have found that a lot of the techniques used to decensor models (as far as I can tell, they basically get all their weights to say no turned off) also make them really stupid. Like, sure, it will help you rob a bank, but if you ask whether you should rob the bank it will go "The positives: … The negatives: … My take: You should ABSOLUTELY rob the bank".
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