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Full network of clitoral nerves mapped out for first time

theguardian.com

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Re: Full network of clitoral nerves mapped out for first time

#181

Post by benj111 »

LoganDark wrote: post #107
benj111 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't particularly agree with the OP but from my European pov, male circumcision doesn't seem to have negative connotations, certainly not in the US. Negative connotations and actual negativity are two separate things. Alcohol tends not to have negative connotations whereas things that are better for your health and less addictive, cannabis, magic mushrooms, have negative connotations.

What? That practice is absolutely terrible. Many people just have no idea about it, and then their offspring might grow up with terrible shame or something if they ever learn what was taken from them. Alcohol is also terrible. Nicotine is terrible. Even caffeine can be terrible if you become too dependent on it without realizing. Harm reduction is a thing that can make things less terrible but most users don't practi…

Your first 2 paragraphs missing the point that negative connotations are not the same as actually negative.

My view is that circumcision is negative. I disagree that it has negative connotations though.

Do we have different understandings of what connotation means? I would say in most of the western population having a glass of wine in the evening would be seen neutrally. Having a joint less so. I'm not saying having a joint is bad. But connotations are about the unspoken things, I'm not saying it, it's inserted by people based on their biases.

I think you're putting the cart before the horse. Things that society decides are immoral become illegal and visa versa.

Fwiw I'm Autistic, so I don't know if the last comment was aimed at me, and whether I should class it as a compliment.

Re: Full network of clitoral nerves mapped out for first time

#182

Post by thomastjeffery »

saagarjha wrote: post #178
thomastjeffery wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The information for where nerve endings are likely to be will probably help surgeons give their patients a better outcome.

You understand you're replying in a thread about female genital mutilation?

Yes, I was being a bit terse with my language, which is why I clarified a bit in my last comment. Here's how I might have written it better:

> FGM reconstruction actually seems to have negative outcomes post-surgery. I'm surprised by this.

Surgery is essentially mutilation, just in the physical sense (you are cutting through healthy tissue), not a moral sense (the whole point is to make the body more healthy). The information gathered from mapping nerve endings in a clitoris will hopefully help surgeons perform reconstruction surgery with less damage to the body.

Re: Full network of clitoral nerves mapped out for first time

#183

Post by reverius42 »

denkmoon wrote: post #175
reverius42 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about fingernails? Would cutting a fingernail without consent be equal?

Absolutely. Let's switch away from fingernails to hair because that's something I can talk about with person experience. I have long hair, plenty of people have jokingly threatened to cut it in my sleep or such. To have my hair cut like that would impart no physical injury or ailment to me at all, but it would be such a severe violation of my bodily autonomy that I would have no reservation about considering it assau…

My point was merely that it's a matter of degree, and while having part of your fingernail removed against your consent is assault, it's not exactly the same thing as having your whole arm removed.

Re: Full network of clitoral nerves mapped out for first time

#184

Post by lopsotronic »

jychang wrote: post #59
wahern wrote: post #17

> the clitoris did not even make it into standard anatomy textbooks until the 38th edition of Gray’s Anatomy was published in 1995. This seemed surprising, as it hews too close to an annoying meme in feminism and history generally, that people in prior eras were idiots. And it turns out to be wrong. The clitoris was in Gray's Anatomy until 1947, when it was removed by the editor Charles Goss for the 25th edition. See…

Being removed for versions 25 to 38… honestly confirms the feminist narrative of some people being idiots, though. Like, imagine documentation on object oriented programming being removed because it offended some functional programming folks.

Back in the Aughts a large number of home-schooling and educational reform organizations (leaning heavily on the Fundamentalist side of the Christian spectrum) had apparently determined that Set Theory originated in Socialist / Bisexual circles.

"A Beka Book" (now styled "Abeka") was not just the province of homeschoolers, but made its way into the educational and academic curricula in many higher learning institutions.

Unlike "modern math" theorists who believe mathematics is a creation of man and thus arbitrary and relative, A Beka Book teaches that the laws of mathematics are a creation of God and thus absolute, and that A Beka Book provides texts that are not burdened with modern ideas such as Set Theory.

It would have made a great deal less fuss if it didn't turn out that Abeka books were being bought in their thousands with tax dollars. I suppose this sort of thing would barely raise an eyebrow these days. I've been seeing far more avante garde ideas flowing forth in the public-funded wells of the former Confederacy of late.

Re: Full network of clitoral nerves mapped out for first time

#185

Post by LoganDark »

benj111 wrote: post #181
LoganDark wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? That practice is absolutely terrible. Many people just have no idea about it, and then their offspring might grow up with terrible shame or something if they ever learn what was taken from them. Alcohol is also terrible. Nicotine is terrible. Even caffeine can be terrible if you become too dependent on it without realizing. Harm reduction is a thing that can make things less terrible but most users don't practi…

Your first 2 paragraphs missing the point that negative connotations are not the same as actually negative. My view is that circumcision is negative. I disagree that it has negative connotations though. Do we have different understandings of what connotation means? I would say in most of the western population having a glass of wine in the evening would be seen neutrally. Having a joint less so. I'm not saying having…

> Your first 2 paragraphs missing the point that negative connotations are not the same as actually negative.

> My view is that circumcision is negative. I disagree that it has negative connotations though.

It certainly has negative connotations for me. But, if you are saying it does not have negative connotations in general because it is still widely practiced rather than widely condemned, then I would be inclined to agree. But the wording of your comment implied there is essentially no contest whatsoever, which is why I wrote to clarify that IME it's only "most" people who don't have an opinion on it (or maybe even support it), and that I and many I know do have strong opinions against it.

> I think you're putting the cart before the horse. Things that society decides are immoral become illegal and visa versa.

That is absolutely not how e.g. the war on drugs started. For example, LSD can be fairly safe when used responsibly (and basically won't directly kill you), however when the wrong people were having fun with it, it was made illegal to target them. I don't think "society" made this determination; just the then-president. Research into psychedelics is finally starting to carve out specific paths to limited legalization, but I honestly think that safe psychedelics should be OTC, and harm reduction should be an encouraged practice, rather than sort of black-market knowledge that is only discoverable by the savviest users.

> Fwiw I'm Autistic, so I don't know if the last comment was aimed at me, and whether I should class it as a compliment.

Honestly it was mostly aimed at my friend group. I've found it difficult to connect with non-autistics because I primarily deal well with explicit logic. It could be that similar intellects are just formatted differently, but I've been unable to tell if a lack of struggle / lack of awareness of struggle actually equates to comparable skill because I can't seem to interrogate them properly. They're all-but inscrutable to me. And as far as I know, they're the source of most of the surface-level generally-accepted stereotypes that quickly break down or are flat-out wrong. I don't know that they're inferior in any way, but they rarely seem to have anything interesting for me (as that would usually make them neurodivergent).

Re: Full network of clitoral nerves mapped out for first time

#186

Post by nineteen999 »

LoganDark wrote: post #174
nineteen999 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which is pretty much how morals are decided these days, especially for the non-autistic / "neurotypical" population Give it a break. Nothing isolates "neurodivergent" people from the rest of society faster than treating neurotypical people as a morally inferior out-group.

I don't know where you got inferiority from that, but it's a well-documented phenomenon that autistic people are more likely to go against the norm than non-autistic people. It's called "positive non-conformity". This suggests non-autistic people are more likely than autistic people to accept how things are and perpetuate it. While I have many autistic friends from abusive living situations that were forced to accept…

> Though I don't know for sure whether this is a side effect of their neurotype or of their societal treatment.

You omitted "self-reinforced stereotype" from that list.

Re: Full network of clitoral nerves mapped out for first time

#187

Post by aj_hackman »

dotancohen wrote: post #115
pron wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somewhat on a tangent, but when people talk about offensive language in the context of cultural criticism they don't mean terms that cause the people who hear them to be offended but things that may diminish the value of some people in the eyes of the people who hear them. I.e. something is offensive, in this sense, to some group X not if people in group X are offended when they themselves are exposed to it but if pe…

My grandfather was a slave - he passed in 2007. I have no objection to the term master, nor have I heard anybody ever who was affected by actual slavery to take offence to the term. I remember much debate about this, and not once was an actual affected person mentioned who took offence.

The anti-master position also willfully disregards synonymy. Just because I have mastered the English language does not mean it belongs to me. Master Splinter does not own the Ninja Turtles.

Re: Full network of clitoral nerves mapped out for first time

#188

Post by usui »

echelon_musk wrote: post #65
shepherdjerred wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://desuarchive.org/g/thread/48696148

Thanks! It must have been the r/programming parody thread I was thinking of as I couldn't find the reference here.

FYI you were not wrong, but it was on a different parody thread here https://desuarchive.org/g/thread/S38087806

"Show HN: Clitly - My API for locating the clitoris using Node.js [github.com]"

Re: Full network of clitoral nerves mapped out for first time

#189

Post by didibus »

dotancohen wrote: post #115
pron wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somewhat on a tangent, but when people talk about offensive language in the context of cultural criticism they don't mean terms that cause the people who hear them to be offended but things that may diminish the value of some people in the eyes of the people who hear them. I.e. something is offensive, in this sense, to some group X not if people in group X are offended when they themselves are exposed to it but if pe…

My grandfather was a slave - he passed in 2007. I have no objection to the term master, nor have I heard anybody ever who was affected by actual slavery to take offence to the term. I remember much debate about this, and not once was an actual affected person mentioned who took offence.

I think OP explicitly said that it's not about the affected party feeling offended, but about how it makes you look to choose such words.

Think bad PR, not actual people complaining due to being offended. Like if I named my code library dead babies, it's possible nobody whose delt with a dead baby finds offense to it, but many people might find it off putting that I've chosen to call it that. So if I was a high value corporate entity who doesn't want bad PR, I might want to rename it.

I think in the end it's more of a, oh damn, did I just make a master/slave analogy for my database design? Maybe someone will find that offensive, and I don't want that, so I'll rename it as a precaution, even if no one has yet to let me know it's offending them.

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