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Police used AI facial recognition to wrongly arrest TN woman for crimes in ND

cnn.com

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Re: Police used AI facial recognition to wrongly arrest TN woman for crimes in ND

#181

Post by samrus »

HDBaseT wrote: post #131
latexr wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, of course someone should have investigated, but the larger point here is that people don’t because they are being sold a false narrative that AI is infallible and can do anything. We could sit here all day arguing “you should always validate the results”, but even on HN there are people loudly advocating that you don’t need to.

I don't think people on HN think "AI is infallible", I think people on HN believe HN is sufficient enough for "most tasks". In the context of HN "most tasks" refers to programming tasks, not arresting and jailing people tasks. You should always validate the results, but there is an inherint difference between an AI generated tool for personal use and a tool which could be used to destroy someones life.

What about cops and legislators? They thing AI is infallible and thats very convenient for them since they can thus not mandate cops having to double check tmwhat the AI suggests

Re: Police used AI facial recognition to wrongly arrest TN woman for crimes in ND

#182

Post by komali2 »

phonon wrote: post #159
FireBeyond wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a judge down in Texas, Dallas area I believe, who is in social media a lot because he will excoriate prosecutors who bring bs in to his court room. He’s not soft on crime but hard on rights and process. If a defendant did the wrong thing, he will have the appropriate amount of sympathy, down to zero. At times he will tell them, we all know you got lucky here, do better. But he won’t let prosecutors slate by o…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Fleischer_(judge)

It's fascinating to me that judges are elected in Texas, and what's more, run as members of a political party.

Re: Police used AI facial recognition to wrongly arrest TN woman for crimes in ND

#183

Post by komali2 »

loloquwowndueo wrote: post #153
hnuser123456 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would absolutely never call the police on a woman. Simply walk far away and let her be someone else's problem.

Unless it’s a Karen chasing you and yelling and threatening to call the police on you for some asinine reason?

Imo they're right, if you're faced with the option of running away from some crazy person or interacting with the police in the USA, the safer option is to run.

A police interaction can escalate to ruinous heights within seconds due to no fault of your own. Remember that cop that got scared by an acorn falling and started shooting at random? I don't care how many "good cops" there are, I'm not rolling the dice on encountering an acorn cop.

Re: Police used AI facial recognition to wrongly arrest TN woman for crimes in ND

#185

Post by retrochameleon »

balderdash wrote: post #175
pstuart wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These dialogs always prompt me to chime in with my solution: make the police be self-insured, backed by their pension fund. The police today have zero incentive to serve the public, they have zero skin in the game and can literally get away with murder. Any time you hear the call for "law and order", that is the audience that supports the current system, because they like it like this.

Great idea, Except that this will never happen because public sector unions are important voting blocks. Public sector unions should be abolished (don’t have a problem with unions) but the conflict of interest is just too great.

Great point. Obviously can't expect them to vote against their own interests, because higher standards, higher accountability, and higher transparency will always be against those interests.

Re: Police used AI facial recognition to wrongly arrest TN woman for crimes in ND

#186

Post by cucumber3732842 »

FireBeyond wrote: post #177
cucumber3732842 wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The system doesn't push the issue on people who can't afford it. Blood from a stone and all that.

Are you suggesting that Florida it’s to go ‘soft on “crime”’? That would fly in the face of almost all available evidence. I have extended family in Florida. The system absolutely can and does and will push the issue. There’s a reason that it’s a crime not to pay for your incarceration even if you have a finding of factual innocence against you.

Your family isn't sleeping under a bridge or whatever. Of course the system wants your money or the money of people on comparable economic footing you associate with. If you can work as a debt slave to the system it wants you to do that even if it means a never ending cycle of robbing peter to pay paul, sleeping on other people's couches, etc. The man sleeping under a bridge cannot, so the cops and the DA and everyone else just go fry bigger fish. Maybe they push the issue 1/100th of the time and incarcerate someone every now and they but they absolutely do not prioritize it the way they do someone who could pay even if only by moving heaven and earth. The system doesn't want to manufacture yet another felony and then incarcerate someone for it out of thin air, that just costs the system more money.

Source: my tiny keyhole view into the system. The parties involve always have have discretion to downgrade stuff to something else, or not pursue it at all and are incentivizes.

Re: Police used AI facial recognition to wrongly arrest TN woman for crimes in ND

#187

Post by cucumber3732842 »

fc417fc802 wrote: post #162
cucumber3732842 wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The system doesn't push the issue on people who can't afford it. Blood from a stone and all that.

I'm confused. Are you suggesting such a ridiculous system is letting class B felonies slide here? That would certainly be the pragmatic approach to being evil but in that case simply treating it as regular debt and going through civil channels would be more than sufficient.

Are you letting stuff in your backlog that you'll never get to before the product is gone or irrelevant "slide"?

Sure they could round those people up pretty easily just by following up on any contact with the system that they have, but why, for what, to cost the state more money that will likely never be repaid? Especially when sticking a body on DUI detail is hugely in the black. They'll just let that debt, it's accruing interests and the threat of further incarceration linger on the books indefinitely. If the person ever gets their life together they'll have to pay it or face incarceration.

I'm sure someone somewhere has written a DB query to select from outstanding balance where and prioritize those cases.

Re: Police used AI facial recognition to wrongly arrest TN woman for crimes in ND

#188

Post by nkrisc »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #95
nkrisc wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some basic investigatory police work (the kind they did before AI) would have revealed the mistake before an innocent woman’s life was destroyed.

The article says that the Fargo police claimed to have done "additional investigative steps independent of AI". (Perhaps they're lying, or did a poor job because they thought the extra steps were a formality.)

Given the actual outcome it’s hard to imagine what they actually did. It would be less embarrassing for them if they had said they did no additional investigating.

Re: Police used AI facial recognition to wrongly arrest TN woman for crimes in ND

#189

Post by bryanrasmussen »

b112 wrote: post #50
oopsiremembered wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt this happened here, but FWIW, AI does have a habit of "cleaning up" (read: hallucinating) interview transcript quotes if you ask it to go through a transcript and pull quotes. You have to prompt AI very specifically to get it to not "clean up" the quotes when you ask it to do that task.

And why not? If you look at examples of people quoting on the internet, lots are out of context, paraphrased, or made up. AI is just mimicking what it has seen.

I often wake up at night from dreams of a crying AI yelling at me "I learned it from watching you, alright?!"

Re: Police used AI facial recognition to wrongly arrest TN woman for crimes in ND

#190

Post by 1718627440 »

rootusrootus wrote: post #165
cogman10 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm generally pretty for unions, but the police union is one that's a complete cancer on society. It pretty much solely exists to make sure cops are free to harm the public without any sort of accountability.

Agreed. And I think we really, really need to put more effort into a "police the police" organization. Someone who has power only over the police, who the police do not have power over, to act as a check.

We might call this the administration of the executive. Maybe we can vote for that or something.
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