Corruption erodes social trust more in democracies than in autocracies • Hacker News Board

Re: Corruption erodes social trust more in democracies than in autocracies

#181

Post by mothballed » Mon, Mar 16, 2026, 4:00 PM UTC

johngossman wrote: post #166

mothballed wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would vote for an infrastructure kleptocrat any day over someone that will actually enforce the insane zoning and code law we have here. A big problem in USA is you can only get many building or infrastructure things done maybe if you have millions to "influence" politicians. The opportunity to have a politician rob me of 10,20% of the construction costs and meanwhile actually be able to build a condo or something…

You might reconsider when your richer neighbor paid the politician to block you or build an asphalt plant next to your new condo. It's a slippery slope. Or how about when the fire department starts asking for a little something to keep your condo "safe"

Costing money to block me rather than $0 is an improvement.

I have no fire department where I live, nor really any effective police. We don't have public infrastructure nor public roads or anything like that. People here do not use public services and our taxes aren't high enough to pay for them, they are almost $0. We do have zoning and codes, but that's sustainable only because it's funded by enforcement fines, otherwise you're on your own.

Re: Corruption erodes social trust more in democracies than in autocracies

#182

Post by andai » Mon, Mar 16, 2026, 4:01 PM UTC

mothballed wrote: post #181

johngossman wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might reconsider when your richer neighbor paid the politician to block you or build an asphalt plant next to your new condo. It's a slippery slope. Or how about when the fire department starts asking for a little something to keep your condo "safe"

Costing money to block me rather than $0 is an improvement. I have no fire department where I live, nor really any effective police. We don't have public infrastructure nor public roads or anything like that. People here do not use public services and our taxes aren't high enough to pay for them, they are almost $0. We do have zoning and codes, but that's sustainable only because it's funded by enforcement fines, oth…

Where are you?

Re: Corruption erodes social trust more in democracies than in autocracies

#183

Post by captainkrtek » Mon, Mar 16, 2026, 4:02 PM UTC

Was talking about this with some colleagues who are from Ukraine, Russia, and other countries.

In the US, it seems corruption is only allowed at the top. If you tried to bribe your way out of a traffic ticket as a regular person, you'd get in big trouble, then meanwhile the president pardons wealthy fraudsters [1].

Meanwhile, in countries like Russia, everyone can get in on the action. A colleague of mine told me if he were to get drafted to the war, he knew exactly how much to pay and who to pay off locally to get his name off the list. It's equal opportunity corruption.

[1] - https://techcrunch.com/2025/03/28/nikola-founder-trevor-milt...

Re: Corruption erodes social trust more in democracies than in autocracies

#184

Post by mothballed » Mon, Mar 16, 2026, 4:02 PM UTC

andai wrote: post #182

mothballed wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Costing money to block me rather than $0 is an improvement. I have no fire department where I live, nor really any effective police. We don't have public infrastructure nor public roads or anything like that. People here do not use public services and our taxes aren't high enough to pay for them, they are almost $0. We do have zoning and codes, but that's sustainable only because it's funded by enforcement fines, oth…

Where are you?

Rural southwest USA

Re: Corruption erodes social trust more in democracies than in autocracies

#185

Post by JackYoustra » Mon, Mar 16, 2026, 4:03 PM UTC

Well yeah social trust is worse in autocracies, you'd imagine that corruption would be lower on the list of problems you perceive having when 1) you don't have a good press to report on them 2) you can be sent to jail basically wherever

like people in democracies do not know how good they have it!

Re: Corruption erodes social trust more in democracies than in autocracies

#186

Post by nephihaha » Mon, Mar 16, 2026, 4:06 PM UTC

Corruption in democracies is misinformation and a conspiracy theory nowadays.

Re: Corruption erodes social trust more in democracies than in autocracies

#187

Post by PaulHoule » Mon, Mar 16, 2026, 4:07 PM UTC

bnjms wrote: post #117

PaulHoule wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The corruption numbers break down into: (1) They didn't ask the question in China, (2) They asked somebody if they paid a bribe or if taking a bribe is every justifiable, and (3) "Expert estimates of the extent to which the executive, legislative, judiciary, and bureaucracy engage in bribery and theft, and the making and implementation of laws are susceptible to corruption" For (2) China doesn't look too different fr…

> though unlike India I think very few Americans have paid a bribe to a cop. No one, left or right, thinks there is street level corruption. Not the kind accessible to someone in a traffic stop. I have experienced it in Mexico and think that kind of corruption would still be worse because I cannot imagine how to recover from it. I have hope that a few high profile arrests of c level fall his may turn the tide. If not…

There is this difference.

I know from my own personal experience that I haven't paid a bribe to a cop or to an alderman to get a zoning variance. There are some places where this kind of thing is routine. (e.g. I know there is a crooked cop somewhere but I also believe that if I tried to pay a bribe to a cop it wouldn't go well)

Thus I trust people's reports of street level corruption.

If it comes to perceptions of "corruption in high places" that is mediated by the media. It may well be that it is very corrupt and you never hear about it, or that it squeaky clean but you hear allegations 10 times a day. Or a Democrat might think everything is corrupt when Republicans are in power and then when Democrats are in power, Republicans take up the slack.

So I don't trust people's reports of corruption in high places.

Now I know a lot of people who are involved in road construction and maintenance in upstate NY who range from "drives a truck" to "manages $10M+ projects" and the belief that there is corruption in highway projects is widespread based on second- and third- hand accounts.

Re: Corruption erodes social trust more in democracies than in autocracies

#188

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Mar 16, 2026, 4:10 PM UTC

varispeed wrote: post #44

Corruption is rife in the West. Wealth managers wine and dine with governments and essentially order policies that nobody voted for that continue to be developed regardless of which party won the elections. Same faces meet with new cohorts of politicians and continue to get their way whilst security services supposed to protect democracy hide their heads in the sand. See things like Digital ID, censorship, surveillan…

[deleted]

Re: Corruption erodes social trust more in democracies than in autocracies

#189

Post by terminalshort » Mon, Mar 16, 2026, 4:10 PM UTC

mb7733 wrote: post #120

vlovich123 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m confused. Corruption isn’t crime? I know white collar crime was controversial 100 years ago, but are we back to arguing whether corruption is crime or not?

Corruption is crime but not all crime is corruption. Stealing copper isn't corruption.

Not all corruption is crime either as any ex politician earning mid 6 figures for a speech could tell you.

Re: Corruption erodes social trust more in democracies than in autocracies

#190

Post by oersted » Mon, Mar 16, 2026, 4:10 PM UTC

zipy124 wrote: post #147

Telemakhos wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does this square with regimes like Singapore, which is one of the least corrupt nations in the world yet also an authoritarian, one-party system?

It doesn't because their premise falls apart in democracies too. Civil servants in democracies are not elected and they have the same 'stopping power'. A planning officer in the UK could just as easily decide to arbritrarily block plans they disagree with as in an authoratian country.

That's not true, in a democracy you tend to have methods of appeal that actually work, and their threat keeps the wheels of bureaucracy greased.

This is because, in principle, everything comes down to the fundamental threat that the people can remove the current government, and the government does have full control over the unelected civil servants. If they keep ignoring appeals, they'll eventually get dethroned.

There's a nice symmetry between this and the fact that the law is ultimately guaranteed by the governments monopoly on violence. They can dethrone you too if you don't comply.

When a democracy works, there can be a very effective balance between the people's leverage towards the government and the governments leverage towards the people.

In an authoritarian regime the same forces are present but they are not balanced in the same way. The people can still rise up and dethrone the ruler through violence, but that is so much harder, and it is mostly offset by the governments greater power of violence. So they can get away with so much more.