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LLMs can be exhausting

tomjohnell.com

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Re: LLMs can be exhausting

#181

Post by hnthrow0287345 »

rednafi wrote: post #11

I have always enjoyed the feeling of aporia during coding. Learning to embrace the confusion and the eventual frustration is part of the job. So I don’t mind running in a loop alongside an agent. But I absolutely loathe reviewing these generated PRs - more so when I know the submitter themselves has barely looked at the code. Now corporate has mandated AI usage and is asking people to do 10k LOC PRs every day. Review…

>Reviewing this junk has become exhausting.

Nitpick it to death. Ask the reviewer questions on how everything works. Even if it looks good, flip a coin and reject it anyway. Drag that review time out. You don't want unlucky PRs going through after all.

Corporate is not going to wake up and do the sensible thing on its own.

Re: LLMs can be exhausting

#182

Post by rednafi »

hnthrow0287345 wrote: post #181
rednafi wrote: post #11

I have always enjoyed the feeling of aporia during coding. Learning to embrace the confusion and the eventual frustration is part of the job. So I don’t mind running in a loop alongside an agent. But I absolutely loathe reviewing these generated PRs - more so when I know the submitter themselves has barely looked at the code. Now corporate has mandated AI usage and is asking people to do 10k LOC PRs every day. Review…

>Reviewing this junk has become exhausting. Nitpick it to death. Ask the reviewer questions on how everything works. Even if it looks good, flip a coin and reject it anyway. Drag that review time out. You don't want unlucky PRs going through after all. Corporate is not going to wake up and do the sensible thing on its own.

Ha ha I wish. Then both corporate and your coworkers hate you.

Also, there is no point in asking questions when you know that they just yoloed it and won't be able to answer anything.

We have collectively lost our common sense and reasonable people are doing unreasonable things because there's an immense amount of pressure from the top.

Re: LLMs can be exhausting

#183

Post by sasha-computer »

interstice wrote: post #179

I've just come off a 2 month bender using Claude Code for, well, far too much. I had 5 instances running at once for days on end. It felt amazing, it felt like flying. And then something gave way and I couldn't focus on anything for 3 days. Diagnosed with ADHD some time ago I fell into this kind of trap well before LLM's, but not to this degree. So I'm writing code by hand today and using Claude to track down type an…

I know you're feeling. Similarly, diagnosed with ADHD early last year. I also went on a Claude Code bender basically since the turn of the new year; I like the term "bender", it really does feel that way.

I have also had to step back, for my own sanity, and approach how I am using these tools. They are very strong slot machines, especially Claude models which require more steering, and that's not a good match with my brain and work style. You're not alone! Keep on trying to work better :)

Re: LLMs can be exhausting

#185

Post by fluoridation »

afandian wrote: post #173
cglan wrote: post #3

I find LLMs so much more exhausting than manual coding. It’s interesting. I think you quickly bump into how much a single human can feasibly keep track of pretty fast with modern LLMs. I assume until LLMs are 100% better than humans in all cases, as long as I have to be in the loop there will be a pretty hard upper bound on what I can do and it seems like we’ve roughly hit that limit. Funny enough, I get this feeling…

Same feeling as pair programming in my experience. If your consciousness is driving, your brain is internally aligned. You type as you think. You can get flow state, or at least find a way to think around a problem. If you're working with someone else and having to discuss everything as you go, then it's just a different activity. I've collaboratively written better code this way in the past. But it's slower and more…

I've had a similar experience, where I pair-programmed with a coworker for a few days in a row (he understood the language better and I understood the problem better) and we couldn't be in the call for more than an hour at a time. Still, although it was more tiring, I found it quite engaging and enjoyable. I'd much rather bounce ideas back and forth with another person than with an LLM.

Re: LLMs can be exhausting

#186

Post by Sparkyte »

Schlagbohrer wrote: post #176

Reminds me of the best saying I ever got from my CS professor. She would make us first write out our code and answer the question, "What will the output be?" before we were allowed to run it. "If you don't know what you want your code to do, the computer sure as heck won't know either." I keep this with me today. Before I run my code for the first time or turn on my hardware for the first time, I ask myself, "What _e…

I agree with this. Writing a prompt isn't good enough on its own. Knowing what the desired output and result paired with understanding how an app should work is still very essenntial.

Re: LLMs can be exhausting

#187

Post by Sparkyte »

cglan wrote: post #3

I find LLMs so much more exhausting than manual coding. It’s interesting. I think you quickly bump into how much a single human can feasibly keep track of pretty fast with modern LLMs. I assume until LLMs are 100% better than humans in all cases, as long as I have to be in the loop there will be a pretty hard upper bound on what I can do and it seems like we’ve roughly hit that limit. Funny enough, I get this feeling…

It feels no different than inhheriting someone's code base when you start at a company. I hate this feeling. AI removes the developer's attachment and first hand understanding of the code.

Re: LLMs can be exhausting

#188

Post by Tenemo »

Schlagbohrer wrote: post #176

Reminds me of the best saying I ever got from my CS professor. She would make us first write out our code and answer the question, "What will the output be?" before we were allowed to run it. "If you don't know what you want your code to do, the computer sure as heck won't know either." I keep this with me today. Before I run my code for the first time or turn on my hardware for the first time, I ask myself, "What _e…

I'm not 100% convinced, while iterating fast on an early prototype, what's wrong with legitimately not knowing what e.g. the data structure will end up looking? Just let it run, check debugger/stdout/localhost page and adjust: "Oh, right, the entries are missing canonical IDs, but at the same time there are already all the comments in them, forgot they would be there – neat". What's wrong with that? Especially at uni, when working on low-stakes problems.

Re: LLMs can be exhausting

#189

Post by rglover »

It's helped me to adapt to a more traditional schedule. I worked 6-7 day weeks, 10+ hours a day on average for about a decade. Thanks to LLMs, I just took off the weekend to build garden beds with my wife and rest. I shut down around 6pm now when I used to frequently go from ~10a to ~10p most days.

And to be clear: this isn't because of some magical property of LLMs, but rather, because it satiates my nervous system's bar for "that'll do, pig." I view the LLM exhaustion as a gift/tell that I've done enough for the day/week.

Re: LLMs can be exhausting

#190

Post by ForHackernews »

hnthrow0287345 wrote: post #181
rednafi wrote: post #11

I have always enjoyed the feeling of aporia during coding. Learning to embrace the confusion and the eventual frustration is part of the job. So I don’t mind running in a loop alongside an agent. But I absolutely loathe reviewing these generated PRs - more so when I know the submitter themselves has barely looked at the code. Now corporate has mandated AI usage and is asking people to do 10k LOC PRs every day. Review…

>Reviewing this junk has become exhausting. Nitpick it to death. Ask the reviewer questions on how everything works. Even if it looks good, flip a coin and reject it anyway. Drag that review time out. You don't want unlucky PRs going through after all. Corporate is not going to wake up and do the sensible thing on its own.

It's their share price. Vibe code gets vibe reviews. #shipit
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