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Vite 8.0 Is Out

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Re: Vite 8.0 Is Out

#181

Post by mexicocitinluez »

jhgb wrote: post #160
mexicocitinluez wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is especially weird because JavaScript was not supposed to be processed at all! This is all wrong if you ask me. You're not actually suggesting that technology can't evolve are you? Especially one whose original design goals were to process basic forms and are now being used to build full-blown apps? It's absolutely wild to me that with everything that has happened in the last 2 decades with regard to the web th…

If you want to make ultra-complicated clients, I assume that's what WebAssembly is heading towards. And it doesn't limit you to a poorly evolved language that wasn't intended for ultra-complicated software in the first place, or even force you to use that poorly evolved language on a server if you need to run the same logic in both places.

You're moving the goal posts.

It was originally about build steps but now you're talking about it's design.

And your only response is to use a technology years away from being practical for most web apps?

Re: Vite 8.0 Is Out

#182

Post by shimman »

MoonWalk wrote: post #173
ahtihn wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you have free software that requires 2 GB of RAM and the alternative is $2k per month and you're complaining that the free solution is inefficient? Really? Why do you expect to be able to replace a 2k/month solution with a $10/month VPS?

Your criticism contradicts itself. He's saying that the software seems free, but is so inefficient that it bloats other costs to run it. And he never said he wanted to replace $2K/month with $10/month.

I'm not saying it's so bad I don't recommend it, quite the opposite; but these things can be written in more performant languages. There's no reason why a cron job scheduler requires 500 mb of ram in idle. Same for the analytics. That is just a waste of resources.

Software can be drastically way less resource intensive, there is no excuse outside of wanting to exacerbate the climate crises.

This period of our history in the profession will be seen as a tremendous waste of resources and effort.

Re: Vite 8.0 Is Out

#183

Post by shimman »

ahtihn wrote: post #161
shimman wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something I realized while doing more political campaign work is how inefficient most self hosted solutions are. Things like plausible or umami (analytics) require at least 2 gigs of ram, postiz (scheduled social media planner) requires 2 gigs of ram, etc. It all slowly adds up where you think a simple $10 VPS with 2 gigs of ram is enough but it's not, especially if you want a team of 10-30ish to work sporadically wi…

So you have free software that requires 2 GB of RAM and the alternative is $2k per month and you're complaining that the free solution is inefficient? Really? Why do you expect to be able to replace a 2k/month solution with a $10/month VPS?

Dude, the $2k solution is not only worse than postiz they charge an additional thousand for each channel.

It's just garbage software, I brought it up as an example IDK why. Commentators here like knowing snippets about other industries in the profession, I know I do at least.

But to answer your Q, yes I do expect a cron job schedule, analytics, and a CRM not to require 8 gig of ram in order to not barf on itself too hard.

These things are incredibly resource intensive for their actual jobs. The software is incredibly wasteful.

A $5/vps should be enough to host every suite of software a small business needs. To think otherwise is extremely out of touch. We're talking about 3 concurrent users max here, software should not be buckling under such a light load.

Re: Vite 8.0 Is Out

#184

Post by shimman »

xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #170
ahtihn wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you have free software that requires 2 GB of RAM and the alternative is $2k per month and you're complaining that the free solution is inefficient? Really? Why do you expect to be able to replace a 2k/month solution with a $10/month VPS?

Because the fundamental task many of these programs are doing is neither complicated nor resource intensive. In the age of cheap custom software solutions everyone should at least try to make something themselves that's fit for purpose. It doesn't take much to be a dangerous professional these days, and certainly more than ever before can a dangerous professional be truly dangerous.

Thank you, I get so confused when people think a $5/vps shouldn't be able to do much. We're talking about 99% of small business that might have 5 concurrent users max.

2 gigs of ram should be considered overkill to cover every single business case for a variety of tools (analytics, mailer/newsletter, CRM, socials, e-commerce).

Re: Vite 8.0 Is Out

#185

Post by patmorgan23 »

awongh wrote: post #139
semiquaver wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The waste of slow JS bundles is nothing compared to the cost of bloated interpreted runtimes or inefficient abstractions. Most production software is multiple orders of magnitude slower than it needs to be. Just look at all the electron apps that use multiple GB of ram doing nothing and are laggier than similar software written 40 years ago despite having access to an incredibly luxurious amount of resources from any…

I guess there's the distinction between capacity that could be taken up by other things, and free capacity that doesn't necessarily cost anything. For a server built in the cloud those cycles could actually be taken up by other things, freeing the system and bringing costs down. For a client computer running electron, as long as the user doesn't have so many electro apps open that their computer slows down noticeably…

Don't forget the human time wasted by an app being slow and laggy.

Re: Vite 8.0 Is Out

#186

Post by KronisLV »

raydenvm wrote: post #80

Yeah, it makes you wonder how much computing power the industry has wasted over the years on tools that nobody questioned because "that's just how long builds take." We planned our work around it, joked about creating breaks, and built entire caching layers to work around it. Kudos to the Vite maintainers!

> Yeah, it makes you wonder how much computing power the industry has wasted over the years on tools that nobody questioned because "that's just how long builds take."

I feel the same way about tools like ESLint and Prettier as well after discovering Oxc https://oxc.rs/

Re: Vite 8.0 Is Out

#187

Post by omnimus »

drawfloat wrote: post #180
pjmlp wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My remark, and not complaint, is that the fashion to rewrite everything in Rust across the JavaScript ecosystem proves the point of holding it wrong. Maybe leave JavaScript on the browser, where it belongs.

Rewriting build time tooling to Rust is leaving Javascript on the browser?

Somebody just really dislikes JS. I sympathize. I wouldn't (be able to) write backend in Rust though.

Re: Vite 8.0 Is Out

#188

Post by Timon3 »

c-hendricks wrote: post #130
nebezb wrote: post #18

> Built-in tsconfig paths support A great QoL change. One less place to duplicate (and potentially mistake) a config.

This is great news, but people should also try using regular nodejs import aliases and see if they're viable for their project.

I keep trying the "native" solutions every so often, but every time I quickly hit some snag that makes me question why I'm not just using the solution that actually works. As an example, I just generated a new project using create-vite & added two subpath imports:

    {
        // ...
        "imports": {
            "#assets/*": "./src/assets/*",
            "#/*": "./src/*"
        },
        // ...
    }
The second one (#/*) is similar enough to what I usually use (@/*), and it's supported in Node since v25.4.0! Yet when I try to import the file at projectRoot/src/router/index.ts using:

    import router from "#/router/index"
VS Code shows an error: "Cannot find module '#/router/index' or its corresponding type declarations."

Now, imports from e.g. "#assets/main.css" work, so I could work around this issue - but this is what I keep experiencing: the native variant usually kinda works except for the most common use case, which is made unnecessarily awkward. For a long time this is what ESM used to feel like, and IMO it still does in places (e.g. directory imports not working is a shame).

Re: Vite 8.0 Is Out

#189

Post by jjtheblunt »

eudamoniac wrote: post #179
jjtheblunt wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most production software is multiple orders of magnitude slower than it needs to be. at least 100x slower than it needs to be?

Easily. Lots of things can take 3ms that actually take 300ms. Happens all the time.

what's an example?

Re: Vite 8.0 Is Out

#190

Post by eudamoniac »

jjtheblunt wrote: post #189
eudamoniac wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Easily. Lots of things can take 3ms that actually take 300ms. Happens all the time.

what's an example?

A poorly written SQL query, an algorithm on large data sets using suboptimal bigO, the Home Depot or Lowe's website search bars, etc
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