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Enhancing gut-brain communication reversed cognitive decline in aging mice

med.stanford.edu

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Re: Enhancing gut-brain communication reversed cognitive decline in aging mice

#181

Post by wk_end »

coldtea wrote: post #123
Aurornis wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. I stopped drinking heavily and using other drugs, i.e. marijuana Heavy alcohol use and marijuana are both known to impact memory and recall directly. Discontinuing both of those explains changes in memory. Attributing this to microbiome changes does not follow.

> Heavy alcohol use and marijuana are both known to impact memory and recall directly. And who said they don't do this (long term) exactly through their affecting the gut microbiome?

I think the appropriate response here is some combination of Russell's Teapot and Occam's Razor: they might, but some kind of hard evidence is necessary before humouring that theory, particularly since there's a vastly simpler explanation on hand.

Re: Enhancing gut-brain communication reversed cognitive decline in aging mice

#182

Post by baldrunner2049 »

zinkem wrote: post #28
inanutshellus wrote: post #9

Everyone's "poo-pooing" the article because the title doesn't mention mice, but, FWIW, stories of gut biota affecting humans behavior have been documented for a while. Memory gain is noteworthy, which is the article's "wow" factor, but everyone's just knee-jerk smirking so ... here's a few random articles to gross you out about the wild world of trading microbiota and, for better or worse, changing your personality:…

I believe this research is totally true-- I had a lot of memories come back after 1. I stopped drinking heavily and using other drugs, i.e. marijuana 2. managed my diet to avoid heartburn without medication 3. schedule my meals so it was easier to sleep at night (always eat something for breakfast when I wake up) I did not need any "poo infusion" or anything. I had a gal bladder removal that didn't fix the problems t…

weird. gal bladder removal made me a lot smarter too. no, really. cuz it didn't fix my problems either. well, it did but in an unexpected way. because it forced me to ask myself the real questions. so i started fixing my life, bit by bit. trial and error.

theorem of indirection, i guess.

Re: Enhancing gut-brain communication reversed cognitive decline in aging mice

#183

Post by codethief »

Aurornis wrote: post #68
esperent wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a meta analysis of 12 studies showing that FMT has a significant effect in reducing depression: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12536323/ It also found the effect was greater in people with IBS.

This meta-analysis isn’t very convincing. Most of the studies included were primarily about other measures like IBS, COVID-related GI symptoms, or Fibromyalgia. Improving GI problems would be expected to improve mood. The positive result is heavily driven by an outlier study on Fibromyalgia that has results that look a little too suspicious relative to the other studies.

> Improving GI problems would be expected to improve mood.

While improving GI problems might improve your mood, I don't think it is accurate to equate depression with "bad mood".

A friend of mine has IBS and while her GI problems are under control most of the time, she still gets hit hard by depressive episodes.

Re: Enhancing gut-brain communication reversed cognitive decline in aging mice

#184

Post by PeterStuer »

Aurornis wrote: post #62
zinkem wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe this research is totally true-- I had a lot of memories come back after 1. I stopped drinking heavily and using other drugs, i.e. marijuana 2. managed my diet to avoid heartburn without medication 3. schedule my meals so it was easier to sleep at night (always eat something for breakfast when I wake up) I did not need any "poo infusion" or anything. I had a gal bladder removal that didn't fix the problems t…

> 1. I stopped drinking heavily and using other drugs, i.e. marijuana Heavy alcohol use and marijuana are both known to impact memory and recall directly. Discontinuing both of those explains changes in memory. Attributing this to microbiome changes does not follow.

Anecdotal. I have never drank much alcohol, but an evening Trappist helped me turn off after a day's work.

Since I stopped that habit, I do notice memory getting worse. Not saying it is THE EXPLANATION, but it is an observation non the less.

Re: Enhancing gut-brain communication reversed cognitive decline in aging mice

#185

Post by codethief »

alpineman wrote: post #163
hbcondo714 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would recommend the site https://gutbrainaxistherapeutics.com for learning more about Microbiota Transplant Therapy (MTT) and its opportunities, especially for Autism and Pitt-Hopkins Syndrome.

Fecal transplants...people will do anything to avoid eating a balanced, largely/wholly plant-based diet with a wide variety of fruits and vegetables.

It's not that simple.

The last couple years, a buddy of mine did exactly what you proposed: He had massive GI problems, so he started watching what he ate, and… his problems became much worse.

Fast forward to a couple months ago, when he sees a doctor specializing in this stuff and she tells him to significantly reduce plant-based food for a while "because your gut biome isn't able to handle it right now. You should go eat a burger every now and then." So he's been following her advice and all of sudden he is without any GI issues whatsoever.

My buddy got lucky (found the right doctor, could eat his way out of it) but if your gut biome is seriously out of whack, I can definitely see the appeal of an FMT to kickstart your recovery.

Re: Enhancing gut-brain communication reversed cognitive decline in aging mice

#186

Post by DennisP »

wafflemaker wrote: post #176
hattmall wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 4 corn/20 plant oatmeal What does this mean?

It's my own idea for a super oatmeal. Working on the idea that it's not just about having fiber in your diet, but more so about variated fiber. Each kind of fiber is preferred by a different type of gut bacteria (I'm just repeating after some hippy that most likely made that up). And the best gut biome is the most variated one. Usually pathologies stem from monocultures. Look at the most of the society. Bread, cookie…

You seem to be on the right track because supposedly for good gut health we need to eat at least thirty different plant foods each week. You've got twelve just for breakfast!

https://www.theguardian.com/wellness/2024/apr/04/30-plants-w...

https://mydoctor.kaiserpermanente.org/mas/news/eating-30-dif...

Re: Enhancing gut-brain communication reversed cognitive decline in aging mice

#188

Post by grvdrm »

butlike wrote: post #180
grvdrm wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fascinating to hear. I am trying to cut alcohol - still not entirely successful. But I've been able to cut for months at a time. Whenever the cut happens, I feel my brain sort of "return" roughly a week or two in. I'm not sure how to explain it other than something like fog clearing. Obviously makes some intuitive sense when you read it. However, as someone that has consumed alcohol somewhat regularly (sometimes more…

I feel that same way you described with the "fog" clearing. I don't know exactly what it is, but I'm imagining it being the fact I _finally_ get some good, restful sleep (with it taking about 2 weeks give or take for that clear headed feeling to regenerate).

Oddly I don’t feel like I sleep better, but probably do. But I’m sure you’re right about the impact of sleep as a contributor to the overall clearing.

Re: Enhancing gut-brain communication reversed cognitive decline in aging mice

#189

Post by 1shooner »

MarkusQ wrote: post #39
1shooner wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems to be a recent anti-science meme to dismiss studies that use mouse models. I'm sure there is an interesting line of discussion about the strengths and limits of those models, but that's probably a complex, nuanced thread to pull, not something you blow off with a hand-waving internet comment.

It's not anti-science, it's anti-science-journalism-hype. Science depends on accurately reporting facts, being clear about the limits of your findings, and seeking explanations that survive scrutiny. Science journalism has other priorities that are often in conflict with those of science.

In this case, it was in the headline of the article. I don't know how much clearer one would expect it to be.

Re: Enhancing gut-brain communication reversed cognitive decline in aging mice

#190

Post by fnord77 »

vidarh wrote: post #8
fnord77 wrote: post #2

... in mice. So if any of this held in humans, I think you'd see reversal of old-age memory problems in people treated with antibiotics that kill Parabacteroides goldsteinii. As far as I know, no such effect has been observed. And this article claims inflamation from that strain, the NIH claims otherwise: "Parabacteroides goldsteinii is a next-generation probiotic gut bacterium with significant anti-inflammatory and…

It's possible the specifics are different but that the overall idea still could work for humans. It seems worth at least exploring.

Probably not worth exploring. I've seen "breakthroughs" for dementia/cognitive decline like this for the past 25-30 years.

Not a single one of them has gone anywhere.

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