Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Swiss e-voting pilot can't count 2,048 ballots after decryption failure

theregister.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 501 posts

Re: Swiss e-voting pilot can't count 2,048 ballots after decryption failure

#181

Post by selectodude »

tastyfreeze wrote: post #114
selectodude wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any ballots that are cast under same-day registration are cast as provisional and will go through the full verification process if the election is close enough where those ballots are necessary. Source: actually ran a fucking election precinct. Non-citizens aren’t casting ballots illegally.

I'm not talking about same day registration. If you are on the rolls and proof of citizenship is not required to register, then how do you as a poll worker know the person on the rolls is a citizen?

You don't, but also you don't have to. Voter rolls are cross referenced with other sources of data to verify citizenship. ID is required to submit a non-provisional ballot even during early voting if you're not in your designated precinct.

Also just generally it's a severe federal crime to vote illegally, so people who are here illegally aren't out en masse publicly tying their identity to federal felonies.

Re: Swiss e-voting pilot can't count 2,048 ballots after decryption failure

#182

Post by mulmen »

ericmay wrote: post #15

Stories like this probably scare some people off from electronic voting but I don't think this is that big of a deal. When we finish voting operations in my area we load the ballots up on someone's personal vehicle and they take them down, securely, to where they need to go. That vehicle could get blown up and those ballots could be gone, though I think we could still get a record of the results. That being said for…

> That being said for the United States, I am in favor of in-person voting requiring proof of citizenship

Why?

> I know there's a lot of discussion points around "efficiency" or "cost" or "accessibility" or how difficult it supposedly is to have an ID (which is weird when you look at how other countries run elections)

How do other countries run elections to overcome their racially motivated systemic voter suppression?

> and there are certainly things to discuss there

This is a laughable understatement.

> but by and large I think the continued digitalization and alienation of Americans is a much worse problem that can be addressed with more in-person activities and participation in society.

I think this is naive. You are attempting to force an outcome without understanding the cause. Systemic racially motivated voter suppression is an undeniable reality in American politics. Voter ID is a clear example of exactly that. It is used to disenfranchise minority voters. This is clear established fact.

There is zero evidence of any voter fraud happening that would be eliminated by additional voter ID.

This is a serious topic that requires you educate yourself on reality. I suggest you take your advice above and touch reality, you are overly digitalized if you think voter ID has any merit at all.

Re: Swiss e-voting pilot can't count 2,048 ballots after decryption failure

#183

Post by sejje »

drstewart wrote: post #131
swiftcoder wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nearly every country in the world requires proof of citizenship to vote. How is the rest of the world dealing with this problem? Most of those nations have a mandatory national ID, so everyone already has proof of citizenship. The US and UK are very much outliers in having vocal and successful resistance to the implementation of a national ID card.

>Most of those nations have a mandatory national ID And what are the fees for these IDs, something you conveniently are leaving out (hint: mostly not free)?

Perhaps those nations don't have laws against poll taxes; the US does.

Re: Swiss e-voting pilot can't count 2,048 ballots after decryption failure

#184

Post by wat10000 »

jagenabler2 wrote: post #77
delecti wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. And in fact there's been a ton of resistance for 20 years to rolling out an alternate form of driver's license which does act as proof of citizenship. See the REAL ID, which even now is only kinda a requirement to fly domestically.

I'm not sure where this idea that REAL ID is a form of citizenship came from. I am not a citizen and i was given a REAL ID just by proving my legal (non-immigrant) status.

I think a lot of people just forget that non-citizen legal residents exist.

Re: Swiss e-voting pilot can't count 2,048 ballots after decryption failure

#185

Post by brendoelfrendo »

zdragnar wrote: post #158
selectodude wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any ballots that are cast under same-day registration are cast as provisional and will go through the full verification process if the election is close enough where those ballots are necessary. Source: actually ran a fucking election precinct. Non-citizens aren’t casting ballots illegally.

They literally just charged someone in Philadelphia for illegally voting in every federal election since 2008. Non-citizen, ordered deported back in 2000 but still in the country. There's not been a reliable audit to show the extent to which this happens (probably not enough to affect even local elections), but to say that it isn't happening is just a lie.

One of voter ID's biggest advocates, the Heritage Foundation, could only find 68 cases of non-citizens voting since 1980. Even if all of them are repeat offenders, that's a few hundred bad ballots out of billions cast. As you said, it is also possible to catch these people. Our election integrity is not threatened by non-citizen voters. It just doesn't happen on the scale that Republicans insist it must be happening, and the fact that they keep repeating it doesn't make it true, it means that they have an agenda that benefits from making you think it's true.

Re: Swiss e-voting pilot can't count 2,048 ballots after decryption failure

#186

Post by mulmen »

TSiege wrote: post #161
Auracle wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much every bill that has ever been put forward for needing an ID to vote has had a provision for free IDs. That’s not where things get caught up. Also, it’s a pretty silly thing anyways. I don’t even drink and I still need my driver’s license quite a few times every year.

> Pretty much every bill that has ever been put forward for needing an ID to vote has had a provision for free IDs. Do you have a source for this because I have seen very few laws like this and runs counter to the overt intention of these laws

You can make it free but still require a person to travel to the county seat or some other distant location to get the ID. That requirement disproportionately hinders minority and poor voters. It’s also easy to “forget” their registrations.

Re: Swiss e-voting pilot can't count 2,048 ballots after decryption failure

#187

Post by joshgachnang »

Auracle wrote: post #43
stetrain wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That being said, I am in favor of in-person voting requiring proof of citizenship I think this is fine if it also then means that obtaining a qualifying ID is treated as a no-cost and highly-accessible right for all citizens. This is where such arguments tend to get stuck in the US. If you require proof of citizenship, but also have places where getting to a government office to get such an ID is difficult or expen…

Pretty much every bill that has ever been put forward for needing an ID to vote has had a provision for free IDs. That’s not where things get caught up. Also, it’s a pretty silly thing anyways. I don’t even drink and I still need my driver’s license quite a few times every year.

While Wisconsin was debating this, they also closed a bunch of DMVs and limited hours for other ones.

The WI constitution enshrines the ability to vote. So you may think it's silly and for 99% of people it may be silly, but if anyone is prevented from voting because there's not a reasonable way for them to get a license, their rights are being infringed.

Re: Swiss e-voting pilot can't count 2,048 ballots after decryption failure

#188

Post by wat10000 »

sejje wrote: post #173
wat10000 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making things more difficult means fewer people will do it. It's foolish to insist that it's all or nothing. It's not about being capable, it's about marginal effects in large groups of people.

That's not the same as "disenfranchised" or "taking voters off the rolls," as it gets talked about (see both of the sibling comments to yours). If they can't put up some minimal effort, what was their vote worth? I don't think the laziest folks probably vote in good policy.

Crazy people with extreme views vote in every single election. Sensible moderates with actual lives may decide that it's not worth the effort.

I'm not worried about lazy people voting. I'm worried about crazy people voting, and not having enough votes from sensible people to drown them out.

Re: Swiss e-voting pilot can't count 2,048 ballots after decryption failure

#189

Post by [deleted] »

stetrain wrote: post #28
ericmay wrote: post #15

Stories like this probably scare some people off from electronic voting but I don't think this is that big of a deal. When we finish voting operations in my area we load the ballots up on someone's personal vehicle and they take them down, securely, to where they need to go. That vehicle could get blown up and those ballots could be gone, though I think we could still get a record of the results. That being said for…

> That being said, I am in favor of in-person voting requiring proof of citizenship I think this is fine if it also then means that obtaining a qualifying ID is treated as a no-cost and highly-accessible right for all citizens. This is where such arguments tend to get stuck in the US. If you require proof of citizenship, but also have places where getting to a government office to get such an ID is difficult or expen…

[deleted]

Re: Swiss e-voting pilot can't count 2,048 ballots after decryption failure

#190

Post by selectodude »

zdragnar wrote: post #158
selectodude wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any ballots that are cast under same-day registration are cast as provisional and will go through the full verification process if the election is close enough where those ballots are necessary. Source: actually ran a fucking election precinct. Non-citizens aren’t casting ballots illegally.

They literally just charged someone in Philadelphia for illegally voting in every federal election since 2008. Non-citizen, ordered deported back in 2000 but still in the country. There's not been a reliable audit to show the extent to which this happens (probably not enough to affect even local elections), but to say that it isn't happening is just a lie.

Ok? And yet, they were caught. Dude's a shithead, swung zero elections, and got caught. They catch people all the time voting illegally. I would make a strong guess that they counted zero of his ballots as they were all provisional.

He should go to jail and yet his existence is not proof that there are hoards of African deportees voting in state and federal elections.

Post reply on HN