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Online age-verification tools for child safety are surveilling adults

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Re: Online age-verification tools for child safety are surveilling adults

#181

Post by throwway120385 »

Razengan wrote: post #75
hunter2_ wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably because the transfer of accounts (typically for reasons of better spamming, but in this case for adult access) is possible. However, that makes me wonder what mechanism might "unverify" an account holder's age upon transfer. I suppose it's simply a need to re-verify (take a new photo) upon every login, but then folks could transfer the session cookie to avoid needing the new owner to perform a login (unless…

> … I suppose it's simply a need to re-verify (take a new photo) upon every login … Clearly the only foolproof solution is a 3rd-party camera pointed at your face at all times whenever you use a computer.

A sort of "telescreen" if you will.

Re: Online age-verification tools for child safety are surveilling adults

#182

Post by choo-t »

Frieren wrote: post #173

[flagged]

> To let unknown adults contact children in private messages is harmful.

But the verification is not to prove you're a children. Everyone will be considered children until proven otherwise, which will not prevent this scenario at all.

Re: Online age-verification tools for child safety are surveilling adults

#183

Post by graemep »

amarant wrote: post #169
graemep wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are not really better. Chat control being pushed in the EU. The Online Safety Act already passed in the UK, and now legislation to give politicians the power to decide what websites need age verification. Crony capitalism/technofedualism/whatever all over the place. Hate speech laws that are often politicised and give the police and prosecutors a lot of room to target people they dislike (something the US has cons…

The UK is lost too. Chat control is scary, but it's actually proof that the EU is not yet lost: that law keeps getting shot down. We do need some kind of mechanism to prevent this kind of "keep trying until it passes" mechanism to lobbying/lawmaking that the people pushing chat control are using. That's a tricky issue though, as revisions on law proposals are an expected part of the process. Some sort of "dismiss wit…

> but it's actually proof that the EU is not yet lost: that law keeps getting shot down.

Good things happen in the UK and US too and some bad laws get rejected. The overall trend is pretty clear though and is the same in the EU, and the rest of the west too.

Its not just one country or leader or political party. Its a cultural problem that affects the whole of the west. "We are going to hell slightly slower" is not a great place to claim to be.

Re: Online age-verification tools for child safety are surveilling adults

#184

Post by bengale »

Frieren wrote: post #173

[flagged]

Ideological is the best way to describe the reaction by most people on here I think, counterproductive is another one. The reality is most normal people want children protected, unless we can come to the table with good options we are going to end up with a terrible one thrust upon us.

Slippery slope arguments and things like it are not going to convince people, "just parent your kids" is not going to convince people. Not because they're wrong, but because on balance they feel like the damage to children being exposed to this content is worse than the potential civil liberty issues.

It will be very difficult to explain to people why this is not the same as alcohol being age-gated and you having to prove your identity to access it. Technically there should be no real reason we cannot do age attestation without fully revealing our identities anyway, there will need to be trust at some point in the system but the reality of the real world is that there is already and it's far less secure than we'd like.

Re: Online age-verification tools for child safety are surveilling adults

#185

Post by pear01 »

graemep wrote: post #151
pear01 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is also an ancient civilization. Americans view of themselves is highly inflated by the sheer luck of being two oceans away from everyone during both world wars. Save for Pearl Harbor there were no notable attacks on the American homeland. It's a lot easier to be a superpower when the world destroys itself and you step into the breach. Millions of Soviet civilians died on their own homeland. In their own cities…

> China is also an ancient civilization. So is Europe, and we are talking about the west in general, not just the US. > Americans view of themselves is highly inflated by the sheer luck of being two oceans away from everyone during both world wars. Again, most of Europe suffered during the world wars. > The fact Russian intelligence operatives can so easily infiltrate American political discourse is just one example…

Europe is not an ancient civilization. It is a continent and politically, an amalgamation.

Most of the "Western" civilizations old enough to attempt comparison with China were not European in the modern sense at all. The classic example is usually Rome, which treated most of Europe as barbarians to colonize and enslave. The engine and wealth of the empire was along the Mediterranean. Ancient Rome was thus really a Mediterranean power not a "European" one. I think you could successfully argue Romans had more in common with other ancient Mediterranean powers or even ancient Mesopotamians than modern Europeans.

As to the rest of your points true enough. It is well known that today's Europeans find themselves in between a rock and a hard place given the current split between American and Chinese hegemony.

Re: Online age-verification tools for child safety are surveilling adults

#186

Post by throwway120385 »

ArchieScrivener wrote: post #20
clumsysmurf wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> now i have free credit monitoring Might not even matter ... "TransUnion and Experian, two of the three major credit bureaus, have started dismissing a larger share of consumer complaints without help since the Trump administration began dismantling the CFPB." https://www.propublica.org/article/credit-report-mistakes-cf...

How much money did the CFPB actually give back to wronged consumers?

Also of note is they were responsible for medical debt cases, which are particularly difficult for people to resolve because of the shared responsibility between the patient and the insurer, which allows the insurer to deflect responsibility until the bill ends up in collections.

Re: Online age-verification tools for child safety are surveilling adults

#187

Post by Razengan »

amarant wrote: post #139
Scapeghost wrote: post #62

Man... How did yall white Westerners turn out to be the weakest people in the world? You were supposed to be the bastions of freedom and justice, and the rest of the world begrudgingly admired you for that and were slowly improving to become like you, but ever since 9/11/2001 the rich old people that rule you have been feeding you boogeymen to make you their complacent b*tches and you lay down and crawl along and acc…

What do you mean "the west"? The US is indeed lost, but don't bundle the rest of us in with those lunatics!

I dunno, the UK seems to be doing its best to outcrazy the US

Re: Online age-verification tools for child safety are surveilling adults

#188

Post by amatecha »

Scapeghost wrote: post #62

Man... How did yall white Westerners turn out to be the weakest people in the world? You were supposed to be the bastions of freedom and justice, and the rest of the world begrudgingly admired you for that and were slowly improving to become like you, but ever since 9/11/2001 the rich old people that rule you have been feeding you boogeymen to make you their complacent b*tches and you lay down and crawl along and acc…

I appreciate you saying this. It gets SO OLD having everything in society dominated by "think of the children" rationales that basically translate to "increasing authority and further-reduced freedom", with a spicy dash of omnipresent surveillance.

Re: Online age-verification tools for child safety are surveilling adults

#190

Post by gljiva »

xp84 wrote: post #170
wrs wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somehow we have more public “discourse” than ever with less public “debate” than ever. People just yelling rude names at each other and repeating nonsense talking points, while the trajectory of what’s actually happening continues to worsen. I include Congress and the executive branch in this characterization.

I regret that I have but one vote to give to this comment. It seems like at least half of what everyone consumes in all of 'social media' is 'politicized' but no one is interested in debating. Debating would have to mean we're talking to those gross people from the opposite 'team,' asking them to justify the policy they are advocating for, listening to them, and trying to convince them of our own positions. When was…

Imagine how far we are from allowing our own stances to change for the purpose of finding out the truth that would benefit us all
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