Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Uploading Pirated Books via BitTorrent Qualifies as Fair Use, Meta Argues

torrentfreak.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 289 posts

Re: Uploading Pirated Books via BitTorrent Qualifies as Fair Use, Meta Argues

#181

Post by moron4hire »

WalterBright wrote: post #177
moron4hire wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the VC-backed startup ecosystem that was the origin of this website does rely on propagating the myth that we live in a meritocracy to ensure it has enough cheap labor to build prototypes that its anointed few can acquire at rock bottom pricing. But we've been through enough cycles of it now that we've started seeing the patterns.

> rock bottom pricing Value is not set by what you put into it, it is set by what people are willing to pay for it. Browsing in a thrift store can be very enlightening!

"Markets clear" is one of those meritocracy myths that we the hoi paloi get taught explicitly all the while the elite will tell you to your face they don't believe. Google and Meta are massively profitable companies built on the idea that the concept of value is manipulable.

Re: Uploading Pirated Books via BitTorrent Qualifies as Fair Use, Meta Argues

#182

Post by smegger001 »

satvikpendem wrote: post #125
orbifold wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t get that, the use of these books was instrumental and necessary for the success of the training run. The expected value of these training runs is high as the build out of 100 billion+ infrastructure demonstrates, so the book publishers should at a minimum be paid a licensing fee, a small fraction of every inference run revenue or whatever they decide. The fact that authors and publishers didn’t get any say un…

The conclusion was they suffered no legal harm, in that their interests such as their continued publishing of books was not affected by LLMs; no one is using AI to compete with publishers, if anything "authors" might very well use those same publishers to get their generated books on shelves. If it's fair use, no licensing fee is needed.

So pretty much the same as the Authors Guild, Inc. v. Google, Inc. case ruling it as fair use as a transformative work. I mean if indexing the worlds books is transformative then a neural net run on them certainly is a transformative work and fair use.

Re: Uploading Pirated Books via BitTorrent Qualifies as Fair Use, Meta Argues

#183

Post by satvikpendem »

smegger001 wrote: post #182
satvikpendem wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The conclusion was they suffered no legal harm, in that their interests such as their continued publishing of books was not affected by LLMs; no one is using AI to compete with publishers, if anything "authors" might very well use those same publishers to get their generated books on shelves. If it's fair use, no licensing fee is needed.

So pretty much the same as the Authors Guild, Inc. v. Google, Inc. case ruling it as fair use as a transformative work. I mean if indexing the worlds books is transformative then a neural net run on them certainly is a transformative work and fair use.

Yes, that's how the argument is going for these lawsuits so far.

Re: Uploading Pirated Books via BitTorrent Qualifies as Fair Use, Meta Argues

#184

Post by Arubis »

roegerle wrote: post #74
mikkupikku wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember that Metallica band members played an active driving role in those lawsuits against their own underage fans. It wasn't just the RIAA / record company organizations behaving cruelly, it was Metallica themselves. Fuck Metallica.

how they were able to recover from that is beyond me.

Most of their fans didn't know and probably still don't. In my admittedly limited exposure (N=3 or 4), folks I know that were informed on Metallica's behavior in the Napster age that have since purchased anything from Metallica is zero.

Re: Uploading Pirated Books via BitTorrent Qualifies as Fair Use, Meta Argues

#185

Post by Arubis »

dizzy9 wrote: post #35

Some of us are old enough to remember when the RIAA sued children for downloading Metallica albums on filesharing networks. They sued for $100,000 per song, an absurd amount when you consider that even stealing a physical album would amount only to around $1 per song. What was bizarre was that courts took the figure seriously, even if they typically settled cases for around $3,000, still around 30x actual damages. Th…

Sure, but these are BILLIONAIRES. Some of society's most vulnerable members. We need to protect them! The kids can take the hit.

Re: Uploading Pirated Books via BitTorrent Qualifies as Fair Use, Meta Argues

#186

Post by aduty »

wnevets wrote: post #153
mikkupikku wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember that Metallica band members played an active driving role in those lawsuits against their own underage fans. It wasn't just the RIAA / record company organizations behaving cruelly, it was Metallica themselves. Fuck Metallica.

It's even more egregious after watching interviews of a young Lars bragging about trading bootleg cassette tapes.

Lars was always a scumbag.

Re: Uploading Pirated Books via BitTorrent Qualifies as Fair Use, Meta Argues

#187

Post by gzread »

Terr_ wrote: post #179
WalterBright wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> rock bottom pricing Value is not set by what you put into it, it is set by what people are willing to pay for it. Browsing in a thrift store can be very enlightening!

> Value is not set by what you put into it, it is set by what people are willing to pay for it. Is a human life literally worthless, because they never pay to be born? The map is not the territory, the price is not the value.

It can be empirically observed that human lives are not assigned much value when choosing to start a war.

Re: Uploading Pirated Books via BitTorrent Qualifies as Fair Use, Meta Argues

#189

Post by lovehashbrowns »

mindslight wrote: post #165
mikkupikku wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember that Metallica band members played an active driving role in those lawsuits against their own underage fans. It wasn't just the RIAA / record company organizations behaving cruelly, it was Metallica themselves. Fuck Metallica.

I still can't listen to a Metallica song on the radio without feeling a bit sour. I wasn't a die hard superfan or anything, but their songs were pretty good. It really didn't help that they had cultivated this tough guy image and then turned into total whiners about piracy.

I became a super fan for a brief second during the Napster days, that’s literally what got me into metal in the first place. Decades later and I’m still soured on them too. Napster days were so good for music discovery. I mean, they’re better now with all these algos, obviously, but it was weirdly fun to download a track with tons of random strings in the name and end up with some parody Weird Al track and that’s how you discovered something new.

Re: Uploading Pirated Books via BitTorrent Qualifies as Fair Use, Meta Argues

#190

Post by harimau777 »

WalterBright wrote: post #177
moron4hire wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the VC-backed startup ecosystem that was the origin of this website does rely on propagating the myth that we live in a meritocracy to ensure it has enough cheap labor to build prototypes that its anointed few can acquire at rock bottom pricing. But we've been through enough cycles of it now that we've started seeing the patterns.

> rock bottom pricing Value is not set by what you put into it, it is set by what people are willing to pay for it. Browsing in a thrift store can be very enlightening!

> Value is not set by what you put into it, it is set by what people are willing to pay for it.

What do you base that belief upon?

Post reply on HN