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Apple told to rewrite "Samsung didn't copy", post on front page until Dec 14th

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Re: Apple told to rewrite "Samsung didn't copy", post on front page until Dec 14th

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This episode is the childish and vindictive zenith of an amazing year of childish and vindictive behavior from Apple. Frankly I just don't get it. They make fantastic hardware and their software is usually at least good. Why do they have to lash out like a schoolyard bully at anybody that threatens to put the tiniest dent in their giant pile of cash money? Why can't they let their products sell and speak for themselv…

Apple isn't in this (the lawsuits) for the money. I'm quite sure they're spending more on the suits than they'd lose to Samsung in the marketplace. It's about credit and fairness from their point of view. They don't want people riding their coat-tails or cheapening what they've created. I don't know that they're right -- I think their brand is strong enough to shake off Samsung, and they should take a page from the f…

It is a proxy war against Android. For reasons I can not fathom, Android scares Apple. And they lash out against it violently.

Samsung is collateral damage.

Re: Apple told to rewrite "Samsung didn't copy", post on front page until Dec 14th

#182

Here's the original page: http://www.apple.com/uk/legal-judgement/ It's basically "The UK court found Samsung non infringing, but said our products are great, and other courts found them infringing.". Far from an apology.

Apologize for what?

Re: Apple told to rewrite "Samsung didn't copy", post on front page until Dec 14th

#183
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought that only applied to trademarks.

It applies to patents, too.

Not true. In past, there were patented technologies (GIF, MP3) that were allowed to be used freely, until they got widespread. Then the lawyers started asking for the money. It was deliberate strategy, that would not work if the above would be true.

Re: Apple told to rewrite "Samsung didn't copy", post on front page until Dec 14th

#184

People. Top post? For hours? 165 comments and counting? For a legal spat in the UK? For every post that claims the top spot there's one that fails to get noticed. These articles are our "Brad and Angelina" equivalents.

It's amazing how flabbergasted people are acting at the statement Apple wrote. Jeez, is your mother the judge or something?! They got clever and got rapped on the knuckles for it. Let's move on.

Re: Apple told to rewrite "Samsung didn't copy", post on front page until Dec 14th

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This episode is the childish and vindictive zenith of an amazing year of childish and vindictive behavior from Apple. Frankly I just don't get it. They make fantastic hardware and their software is usually at least good. Why do they have to lash out like a schoolyard bully at anybody that threatens to put the tiniest dent in their giant pile of cash money? Why can't they let their products sell and speak for themselv…

Apple isn't in this (the lawsuits) for the money. I'm quite sure they're spending more on the suits than they'd lose to Samsung in the marketplace. It's about credit and fairness from their point of view. They don't want people riding their coat-tails or cheapening what they've created. I don't know that they're right -- I think their brand is strong enough to shake off Samsung, and they should take a page from the f…

They have cross licencing with Microsoft, that's why you won't see them suing the folks at Redmond.

Re: Apple told to rewrite "Samsung didn't copy", post on front page until Dec 14th

#186
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This episode is the childish and vindictive zenith of an amazing year of childish and vindictive behavior from Apple. Frankly I just don't get it. They make fantastic hardware and their software is usually at least good. Why do they have to lash out like a schoolyard bully at anybody that threatens to put the tiniest dent in their giant pile of cash money? Why can't they let their products sell and speak for themselv…

> Why can't they let their products sell and speak for themselves? The original iPhone was banned in South Korea for two years. It seems that this was to give South Korean companies a chance to catch up.

Note that the policy of protecting local cell phone manufacturers predates the iPhone (according to malenm's reference).

Re: Apple told to rewrite "Samsung didn't copy", post on front page until Dec 14th

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was going to post this! TL;DR the link: Coins are only legal tender up to a certain amount. For example 21p in 1p's is not classed as legal tender. (Is it only me who can only say "legal tender" in a scottish accent > "I think you'll find that's...")

I recently paid for £21 worth of groceries in 20p pieces (change jar needed emptying). Lock me up and throw away the key. (Fortunately it was a self-checkout so no witnesses).

That's not a debt - that's a point-of-sale. They're allowed to accept or refuse any form of payment there (at least under US law - UK is probably similar).

The reason for the laws surrounding debt is to prevent creditors from purposefully holding debtors in debt by refusing to accept their payments ('Oh, sorry, you HAVE to pay me in this form, so I'll refuse your payment and instead charge you an extra day of interest, etc.)

Re: Apple told to rewrite "Samsung didn't copy", post on front page until Dec 14th

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple isn't in this (the lawsuits) for the money. I'm quite sure they're spending more on the suits than they'd lose to Samsung in the marketplace. It's about credit and fairness from their point of view. They don't want people riding their coat-tails or cheapening what they've created. I don't know that they're right -- I think their brand is strong enough to shake off Samsung, and they should take a page from the f…

It is a proxy war against Android. For reasons I can not fathom, Android scares Apple. And they lash out against it violently. Samsung is collateral damage.

Because iOS is getting features like "Facebook integration" while Android rolls out 360 degree panoramas on a device that outspecs the iPhone 5 and is less than half the price.

I'd be worried too.

Re: Apple told to rewrite "Samsung didn't copy", post on front page until Dec 14th

#189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Frankly I just don't get it Apple is the biggest corporation on the planet, and hence has more to lose than anyone else. There are literally trillions of dollars on the line. This while doing business in an intensely competitive space and relying on an incredibly powerful, but fragile, branding strategy. I don't like it, but I get it. And it's fascinating to watch.

> relying on an incredibly powerful, but fragile, branding strategy Saying Apple relies on a "branding strategy" denigrates several entire fields, particularly interaction design and supply chain management. You don't seem to realize that these are important domains of expertise that can confer immense advantages on companies that do them well.

>"You don't seem to realize that these are important domains of expertise"

No, I realize it. These strategies are open and replicable. Apple is great at them, but other companies are closing the gap. Supply chain means margins, and those are getting squeezed. Joe Public can get a product that's functionally like an iPhone for a similar or cheaper price, so the supply chain management ability isn't unique.

What they've done with the brand, on the other hand, is remarkable. Apple is a status symbol. You think "fanboyism" occurs only on hacker sites? Go to any forum anywhere and people are vehemently praising the company. It may be my opinion, but it's the most valuable thing they have, and why they protect it at all costs, up to and including disobeying orders and making sure people know that competitors aren't as cool.

Re: Apple told to rewrite "Samsung didn't copy", post on front page until Dec 14th

#190
In July, 2012, Samsung had won a judgment in the UK to the effect that its Galaxy Tab computers did not infringe Apple's registered design.

In spite of this, Apple continued to assert, broadly and widely, that Samsung's tablet computers did in fact constitute blatant copying of Apple's design and was therefore wrongful.

Therefore, Samsung went to the court trying to get an injunction barring Apple from making such claims because the claims were causing commercial harm to Samsung within the UK and thereby were negating the effect of the judgment won by Samsung.

Alternatively, Samsung sought a publication order requiring Apple to publicize the fact of the judgment on a long list of Apple websites as well as in certain financial publications. The idea of this order was to clear the confusion created by Apple's continued claims of illegal copying notwithstanding that it had lost on this issue in the UK courts.

The judge hearing the follow-up proceeding issued a very thoughtful ruling (found here: http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Patents/2012/2049.html) that in fact denied Samsung's request for an injunction against Apple's being able to claim illegal copying. The judge acknowledged the inherent unfairness of barring a party that had lost in a court proceeding from contesting the ruling and from publicly claiming that the ruling was wrong. It thus agreed with Apple that Apple should not be muzzled in asserting its legal right to speak.

The judge then turned to the more limited request made by Samsung for the publication order and described it as follows: "Samsung say that, notwithstanding the fact that Apple have lost this case, they continue to assert that Samsung infringes and that the damage that was caused and has been described there continues to apply. Accordingly, Samsung seek orders that I should require Apple to put on their websites and to put in certain newspapers references to this judgment and a statement that the court has found that the Samsung Galaxy tablets do not infringe." The judge went on to say that he believed "there is a useful purpose in a clear public statement that a product alleged by a rights holder to infringe those rights does not infringe," reasoning that "[t]he more frequently and the more loudly a rights holder has asserted infringement, the more useful it is to have a clear public statement to the contrary."

So, the whole point of the order was to ensure that Apple made a clear public statement to the effect that a UK court had ruled that the Galaxy Tab did not infringe Apple's registered design. Nothing in the order prevented Apple from continuing to assert that it was right and that the UK decision was wrong. Apple had full scope to make these assertions as and when it wanted and has obviously been making them freely.

At the same time, Apple was required to make the clear public statement called for by the follow-on order. Apple appealed this follow-on order and lost. It therefore had exhausted its remedies within the relevant court system and was left with the requirement that it comply.

That is when it purportedly complied by placing a teeny link buried at the bottom of its UK home page that linked to a text that, within the disclosure itself, bombarded the reader with all the reasons why Samsung really did infringe notwithstanding the UK judgment that had been rendered against Apple.

A few thoughts:

1. This conduct by Apple did not merely violate the "spirit" of the order. It clearly violated the order itself. Where Apple had been ordered to make a clear public statement publicizing the fact of the UK judgment, Apple had in fact offered up an obscure link to a statement full of argumentative statements aimed at creating obvious doubt about the question of non-infringement.

2. Apple did this in a context where the order had given it free scope to argue all it liked about its free speech rights to contest the original judgment and to continue claiming infringement on grounds that it disagreed with that judgment. Instead of accepting the order on its terms, Apple went way out of its way to undercut the limited disclosure that it had been required to make.

3. Lawyers say, "pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered," meaning that when a litigant gets too greedy, it risks having its legal proceeding go badly wrong. Apple had been given a reasonable accommodation by the court addressing its legitimate concerns but it was not content to settle for that. It wanted to do nothing that might acknowledge that Samsung had legitimate issues as well - issues that had been found valid by a UK court and affirmed on appeal. Therefore, Apple decided to respond in a way it deemed clever, in effect defying the judicial authorities who had ruled against it.

4. We can each judge for ourselves whether this was smart or not. My view is that it is conduct unbecoming of lawyers (and of Apple as the principal in the case) and, indeed, is an outrageous affront to judicial authority. Courts and judges are not always right but, when they rule against you and you exhaust your appeals, you had better comply. If you think you are above the law in the sense that you need not comply, you will regret it. Those of us who are mere mortals need to live by these rules. So too does Apple.

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