That's good, people who need E2EE shouldn't use TikTok either way, there are plenty of other secure apps for that.
TikTok is a social media app, and it gets heavily abused as it is.
TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe
181–190 of 458 posts
Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe
#182Earlier quoted context omitted.
Parents are already allowed to restrict their children access to 'dangerous' things like open computers or knives.
Parents are also allowed to restrict their children access to alcohol and cigarettes, but it seems a government ban on them buying those things works better
Doesn't seem to be a universal truth to me. As a teenager I had rather easy access to both cigarettes and alcohol in spite of usual age-restrictions legally imposed. I didn't care what gov't thinks about it. I did care about what my parents would do if I caught drunk though. That was my real barrier.
Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe
#183Earlier quoted context omitted.
Last time my government tried that, they failed. [0] You need to 100% trust those verification services. And considering their success rate [1], you shouldn't. [0] https://thinkingcybersecurity.com/DigitalID/ [1] https://discord.com/press-releases/update-on-security-incide...
> You need to 100% trust those verification services. First link - mitigation: use a well supported standard like OIDC, not a home-cooked scheme. Duh. Second link - this is part of the problem such schemes as verifiable credentials are designed to address, random third parties collecting ID they don't need. Yes, any system needs to be executed well. Neither of these really display that.
If _the government_ can't be trusted not to use a dumbass scheme, then no, it isn't a duh moment. You don't exactly get to dictate how the government implements it!
The point is that systems today, aren't really well executed. So it is unreasonable to expect them to be well executed.
If you can't trust people not to build the bomb well - then don't let them build a bomb.
Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe
#184This according to many researchers is the best case study example for corporations gaslighting users into accepting surveillance by companies and governments alike.
Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe
#185Earlier quoted context omitted.
In the context of "Age verification should be banned" though, we're already talking about legislative intervention. If there's no particular problem with schemes that are like that then we don't necessarily need a blanket ban on age verification. Perhaps what we're really saying is "Ban age verification that collects lots of personal information". Or perhaps we could distil it down further to "Ban unnecessary collect…
> If there's no particular problem with schemes that are like that then we don't necessarily need a blanket ban on age verification. There is a problem with schemes like that. The way computer security works is, attacks always get better, they never get worse. A scheme that nobody has found any privacy holes in when it's enacted will have one found a week after. The way governments work is, the compromise bill passes…
> There is a problem with schemes like that.
/goes on to discuss how government legislation of specific schemes is the issue, not the schemes themselves.
Then we don't legislate specific schemes? The GDPR doesn't do that, for instance, it spells out responsibilities and penalties but doesn't say "Though shalt use this specific algorithm".
Remember, this discussion started with a call to ban all age checks, which itself is a government action and restriction on the agency of private business.
There are ways that private entities can implement age checks both securely and without leaking much other information, so it seems very heavy-handed to ban them. Private entities are building such systems between themselves already, without government mandates on the specifics.
Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe
#186Earlier quoted context omitted.
Passport /citizen ID linked to your WOW account, etc.
Which has never worked. Korea had a system to prevent kids from gaming after midnight for something like 15 years. All it did was make Korean kids very good at memorizing their parents ID.
Maybe it does work exactly as intended. It gives parents more leverage to restrict their kids gaming but many parents just don't care. And it's ok I guess, the society probably needs some flexibility in raising the next gen.
Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe
#187It doesn't matter. Web-based cryptography is always snake oil https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.devever.net/~hl/webc...
It's a native app what are you talking about
> It is worth noting that this law also applies to non-web applications where the service provider supposedly being secured against is also the client software distributor; thus, the “end-to-end encryption” offered by Whatsapp and Signal, amongst other proprietary services, is equally bogus. (Both Whatsapp and Signal ban use of third party clients, and enforce this policy.)
Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe
#188I think this is... fine? Am I just totally naive. I think it's fine to say "You don't really have privacy on this app" - as long as there are relatively good options of apps that do have privacy (and I think there are). TikTok is really a public by default type of social media, there's not much idea of mutual following or closed groups. So sure, you don't have privacy on tiktok, if you want it you can move to snapcha…
Tiktok has private messaging, and it is used by hundreds of millions of people.
IMO no consumer service should have private 1:1 messaging without e2e. Either only do public messaging (ie. Like a forum), or implement e2e.
Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe
#189A Chinese company saying you don't need encryption. Why should anyone waste time debunking their bad faith "arguments"?
Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe
#190DMs are akin to private conversations in real life. Thus, every DM feature should entail E2EE. It’s ok for a platform to not feature private conversations. They should just have no DM feature at all, then; make all messages publicly visible. Private conversations are indeed not for all ages. Parents should be able to grant access to that on individual basis.
I fail to see the link between private conversations/DM and E2EE.
To quote a comment I made some time ago:
- You can call your service e2e encrypted even if every client has the same key bundled into the binary, and rotate it from time to time when it's reversed.
- You can call your service e2e encrypted even if you have a server that stores and pushes client keys. That is how you could access your message history on multiple devices.
- You can call your service e2e encrypted and just retrieve or push client keys at will whenever you get a government request.
E2EE only prevents naive middlemen from reading your messages.