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British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

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Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#181

Post by davidw »

allknowingfrog wrote: post #157
jorvi wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Instinctively, I think morning light is important to our biology for a daily reset I'd bet people would happily trade away the inkling of light they get during their winter commute before locking themselves into their office for some extra daylight when they leave that office. Daylight is most enjoyable if you can actually make use of it.

Well, I'm not one of those people. I like waking up with the sun and driving to work in the daylight. The idea that DST solves anything absolutely blows my mind. If you want the ability to start your work day earlier and end it earlier, that seems like a worker protection bill that needs to be passed. DST is the kludgiest kludge that ever kludged.

> If you want the ability to start your work day earlier and end it earlier, that seems like a worker protection bill that needs to be passed.

I don't think that's very realistic though is it? School times are fixed and that anchors a lot of families to those specific times, and businesses tend to have set hours.

Changing the time to give people more light in the evening frees up a bunch of people to enjoy some sunlight without making it a whole fight to have different hours at work.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#182

Post by Levitz »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #130
exmadscientist wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> winter just doesn't have enough daylight to think you can get everything done with sunlight That's the perfect way to say it. The other piece that a lot of people are missing is the whole larks (early risers) vs owls (late risers) divide. I think the best illustration of that is to ask, if you got your pick, which shift you'd take, based solely on your own body and habits: 8-4, 9-5, or 10-6 (or perhaps even further…

My guess is that both owls & larks get their preference logically backwards. My guess is that owls will say they prefer permanent daylight time and larks will say they prefer permanent standard time. But their revealed preference is the opposite -- owls wake up well after sunrise and go to bed well after sunset. Yet permanent daylight time will shift it so they'll be waking up closer to sunrise and going to bed close…

I'm definitely in the night owl camp and I'd much rather have sunlight in the mornings because I already am going to have trouble waking up each morning, making it so I can't even set my circadian rhythm properly is just adding insult to injury.

It amazes me that we actually argue about this based on vibes. We know that people are better off the closer the time between waking up and sunrise.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#183

Post by alpinisme »

allknowingfrog wrote: post #157
jorvi wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Instinctively, I think morning light is important to our biology for a daily reset I'd bet people would happily trade away the inkling of light they get during their winter commute before locking themselves into their office for some extra daylight when they leave that office. Daylight is most enjoyable if you can actually make use of it.

Well, I'm not one of those people. I like waking up with the sun and driving to work in the daylight. The idea that DST solves anything absolutely blows my mind. If you want the ability to start your work day earlier and end it earlier, that seems like a worker protection bill that needs to be passed. DST is the kludgiest kludge that ever kludged.

Where I live June sunrise (with DST) is 5:11am and sunset is 8:21pm (a city on the American east coast). I just can’t imagine a majority of people would want 4:11 rising and 7:21 setting.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#184

Post by dave78 »

jcranmer wrote: post #17
jonny_eh wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's "standard" for a reason. Humanity settled on these numbers long ago because they work best. It boggles my mind why anyone would choose otherwise since what we do at any given hour is arbitrary.

A lot of people hate standard time in winter because the sun sets at 4 or 5, and they want the sun to instead set at 8 or 9 like it does in summer. DST in winter doesn't actually give you the 8 or 9 sunset, it gives you a 5 or 6 sunset (which doesn't get you all that much) combined with moving your sunrise to 8 or 9, which causes its own set of issues most people don't think about. The last time we went to year-round…

> which doesn't get you all that much

After college I moved from the far western edge of one timezone to the far eastern edge of another zone. I grew up with 5-5:30pm sunsets in winter, and now I live with 4-4:30pm sunsets. I moved here 25 years ago, and every single year when November/December come around and I get those early sunsets I hate it. It's one of the reasons I'd like to move away from here.

I know it's just one person's opinion, but to me those extremely early sunsets in the middle of winter are a huge quality of life reduction.

I believe part of the problem is that if you're in the middle or western edge of your zone, the winter sunsets aren't so bad. I suspect a lot of people who would prefer DST year round live on the eastern edge.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#185

Post by wvenable »

throw0101c wrote: post #91
wvenable wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone else pointed everyone is already on DST for approximately 65% of the year. This just removes the remaining 35%. Picking standard time would have been a much bigger change. Ultimately, it's entirely arbitrary anyway. The only issue is that American states cannot pick DST without a federal law change.

> As someone else pointed everyone is already on DST for approximately 65% of the year. This just removes the remaining 35%. Picking standard time would have been a much bigger change. This 65% started during the Dubya presidency (source: I was there updating tzdata on systems), and previous to that it was a 50/50 split. So 65/35 or 50/50 is arbitrary.

But the reasoning for that was a preference for DST.

Obviously all this is arbitrary including standard time.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#186

Post by cf100clunk »

glatisaint wrote: post #133
cf100clunk wrote: post #81

Not all of British Columbia can make the change. BC's northeast and much of the Columbia-Kootenays are presently on Mountain time, which means that the Province of Alberta holds the choice of when/whether their own and those BC areas go to a permanent time. Then AB would have to sync with Saskatchewan along their borders, but SK is already on a permanent time zone system. Decisions, decisions.

The northeast is already on permanent PDT.

On further reading, the northeast of British Columbia is on permanent Mountain Standard Time, as seen here:

https://www.timeanddate.com/time/zone/canada/chetwynd

Parts of the Columbia-Kootenays change between Mountain Standard and Mountain Daylight time:

https://www.timeanddate.com/time/zone/canada/cranbrook

while the Town Of Creston is permanently on Mountain Standard Time.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#187

Post by at_compile_time »

allknowingfrog wrote: post #157
jorvi wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Instinctively, I think morning light is important to our biology for a daily reset I'd bet people would happily trade away the inkling of light they get during their winter commute before locking themselves into their office for some extra daylight when they leave that office. Daylight is most enjoyable if you can actually make use of it.

Well, I'm not one of those people. I like waking up with the sun and driving to work in the daylight. The idea that DST solves anything absolutely blows my mind. If you want the ability to start your work day earlier and end it earlier, that seems like a worker protection bill that needs to be passed. DST is the kludgiest kludge that ever kludged.

>If you want the ability to start your work day earlier and end it earlier, that seems like a worker protection bill that needs to be passed.

If that's what passes for aspiration these days then the labour movement truly is dead.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#188

Post by cpncrunch »

The_Fox wrote: post #25

"Pacific time" is going to be so confusing though. Should have just called it Yukon Standard Time, since that's already a thing, at least informally. Cause that would not be confusing at all...

Yes, it's going to cause a lot of confusion and missed meetings. At the moment everyone says "pacific time", but now that will mean two different things.

I think we'll need to say Vancouver time or California time.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#189

Post by at_compile_time »

jorvi wrote: post #143
emptybits wrote: post #15

I'm in BC. The astro-nerd in me would have preferred to see permanent Standard Time instead of a permanent +1 offset. Instinctively, I think morning light is important to our biology for a daily reset and the solar cue of "high noon" is also a real thing. I'm sure I've read that sleep health experts have historically supported a change to permanent Standard Time, not DST. I respect there are economic arguments for pe…

> Instinctively, I think morning light is important to our biology for a daily reset I'd bet people would happily trade away the inkling of light they get during their winter commute before locking themselves into their office for some extra daylight when they leave that office. Daylight is most enjoyable if you can actually make use of it.

The problem of offices is not when we spend time in them but rather that we spend time in them at all. What a banal hell it is we have consented to endure compared to the comforts of our homes or of any space actually designed for the wellness of human beings or even focused work.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#190

Post by [deleted] »

karlosvomacka wrote: post #102
water-data-dude wrote: post #92

Everyone else is throwing in there 2¢, so here's my pet proposal. Here's the undeniable fact: everyone (ok, almost everyone, but it's a rounding error) hates the switchover in spring, when you have to get up an hour earlier. Conversely, everyone (or a rough approximation) likes the switchover in the fall, when we get to sleep in an extra hour. So why don't we just get rid of the switchover in the spring and get rid o…

that's a load of horseshit. everyone around me want's the daylight savings time, to have more light after work. nobody cares about mornings. > when you have to get up an hour earlier no you don't. it's weekend.

[deleted]
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