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A new California law says all operating systems need to have age verification

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Re: A new California law says all operating systems need to have age verification

#181

Post by timhh »

dathinab wrote: post #46

> [..] requires an account holder to _indicate_ [..] i.e. this doesn't require age verification at all just a user profile age property > [..] interface that identifies, at a minimum, which of the following _categories_ pertains to the user [..] so you have to give apps and similar a 13+,16+,18+,21+ hint (for US) if combined with parent controls and reasonably implemented this can archive pretty much anything you nee…

> i.e. this doesn't require age verification at all, just a user profile age property

This is usually how they do it though. First make a dumb law with poor enforcement. People don't push back about it because it obviously won't be enforced. Wait a bit, then say "people are flagrantly violating this law, we need better enforcement". At that point it's a lot harder to say "it shouldn't be a law at all!" because nobody complained when it was brought into law.

Re: A new California law says all operating systems need to have age verification

#182

Post by gtsop »

SoftTalker wrote: post #134
throw03172019 wrote: post #42

Are lawmakers bored? Who is asking for this? Not the tax paying citizens.

Parents who are fed up with social media and tech companies taking no social responsibility. These companies have fewer ethics than a minimum-wage liquor store clerk when it comes to caring about the age of their users.

[dead]

Re: A new California law says all operating systems need to have age verification

#183

Post by Sophira »

cjs_ac wrote: post #18

Ignoring all the tedious 'no, you're a bad person for having different priorities and beliefs to me' comments that this will inevitably inspire, I have to ask: why does the operating system need to be involved in this? The intended target of the regulation seems to be app stores. Someone has fallen victim to Politician's Logic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vidzkYnaf6Y

I think the answer is quite simply: Follow the money. General-purpose computing is scary to big, soulless corporations. They want you to rely on them, not to be able to do stuff yourself. (They want to keep that power for themselves.)

Age verification is the quickest road to ending general-purpose computing, because it plays on people's knee-jerk emotions. It won't do it by itself, but it'll goes a long way towards it.

Re: A new California law says all operating systems need to have age verification

#184

Post by monero-xmr »

newsoftheday wrote: post #180

California is a confusing state, age verification for operating systems while almost releasing this monster on the public: https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2026-02-26/serial-c...

They also created an open air market for child prostitutes with their latest anti-arrest law, as observed by the NYT last November https://www.nytimes.com/2025/11/19/insider/sex-trafficking-m...

Re: A new California law says all operating systems need to have age verification

#185

Post by SunshineTheCat »

fangpenlin wrote: post #67

There's an obvious theme with lawmakers in California—they pass laws to regulate things they have zero clue about, add them to their achievement page, cheer for themselves, and declare, "There! I've made the world a better place." There are just too many examples. For instance: - Microstamping requirements for guns—printing a unique barcode on every bullet casing (Glock gen3 cannot be retired, thus, the auto-mode swi…

> they pass laws to regulate things they have zero clue about

While you are correct with this statement in this context, I would say it applies to most things in government in general.

The vast majority of lawmakers have zero experience solving any real world problems and are content spending everyone else's money to play pretend at doing so.

The reality is, most government "solutions" cause more problems than they solve, after which, they blame their predecessors for all the problems they caused and the cycle continues.

Re: A new California law says all operating systems need to have age verification

#186

Post by shitlord »

AceJohnny2 wrote: post #87
fangpenlin wrote: post #67

There's an obvious theme with lawmakers in California—they pass laws to regulate things they have zero clue about, add them to their achievement page, cheer for themselves, and declare, "There! I've made the world a better place." There are just too many examples. For instance: - Microstamping requirements for guns—printing a unique barcode on every bullet casing (Glock gen3 cannot be retired, thus, the auto-mode swi…

> There's an obvious theme with lawmakers in California You can remove the in California

Policies enacted elsewhere usually don't have the Brussels Effect.

Re: A new California law says all operating systems need to have age verification

#188

Post by tzs »

collingreen wrote: post #131
anonym29 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's about as easy to restrict the proliferation of firearms and ammunition as it is to restrict the proliferation of open source software. Anyone can make functional firearms out of supplies from any hardware store, this is true regardless of how many laws you pass. Look at the weapon that was used to assassinate Shinzo Abe. That was manufactured and used in a country with gun control laws that basically make Califo…

It's a logical mistake to say that because an extremely motivated person can still cause harm somehow that implies no regulation or policy can have any positive impact anywhere. I don't have a stance here on what "the right" policies around gun control are but it is clearly a much wider field than just a preplanned assassination with diy parts. A non-exhaustive list of a few very different scenarios that are all invo…

> It's a logical mistake to say that because an extremely motivated person can still cause harm somehow that implies no regulation or policy can have any positive impact anywhere

That kind of mistake is common here, but I don't think it is due to a failure of logic. I think it is something deeper.

I've noticed that people who have worked deeply and/or a long time as developers tend to lose the ability to see things as a continuum. They see them as quantized, often as binary.

That's also why there are so many slippery slope arguments made around here that go from even the most mild initial step almost immediately to a dystopian hellscape.

This is prevalent enough that it arguably should be considered an occupational hazard for developers and the resultant damage to non-binary thinking ability considered to be a work related mental disability with treatment for it covered by workers compensation.

A way to protect against developing this condition is to early in your career seriously study something where you have to do a lot of non-binary thinking and there are often aren't any fully right answers.

A good start would be make part of the degree requirement for a bachelor's degree in computer science (and maybe any hard science or engineering) in common law countries a semester of contract law and a semester of torts. Teach these exactly like those same courses are taught in first year law school. Both contracts and torts are full of things that require flexible, non-binary, thinking.

Re: A new California law says all operating systems need to have age verification

#189

Post by ohhnoodont »

tzs wrote: post #117
9x39 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m more curious in the genesis of these laws, whether their sponsors received written suggestions or ghostwritten bills, etc. as a form of parallel construction. It seems all at once, everywhere that many groups that have a vested interest in forcing precedent and compliance of non-anonymous access across the computer world. It smacks of something less-than-organic.

This law doesn't do anything that prevents non-anonymous access. Here's how you would access things anonymously if you bought a new computer that implemented this. 1. When you set up your account and it asks for your birthdate, make up any date you want that is at least far enough in the past to indicate an age older that what any site you might use that checks age requires. 2. Access things the way you've always don…

I agree. I feel the flow of having browsers send some flag to sites is the most privacy-preserving approach to this whole topic. The system owner creates a “child” account that has the flag set by the OS and prevents the execution of unsanctioned software.

This puts the responsibility back on parents to do the bare minimum required in moderating their child’s activities.

Re: A new California law says all operating systems need to have age verification

#190

Post by idle_zealot »

fangpenlin wrote: post #67

There's an obvious theme with lawmakers in California—they pass laws to regulate things they have zero clue about, add them to their achievement page, cheer for themselves, and declare, "There! I've made the world a better place." There are just too many examples. For instance: - Microstamping requirements for guns—printing a unique barcode on every bullet casing (Glock gen3 cannot be retired, thus, the auto-mode swi…

What I'm reading of this law is that it requires OS developers to require users select their age (really their age bracket) when making a user account, and an interface for applications/websites to read that user-provided field. I.e. not age verification, but just a standard way to identify if a user is on a child account. If that understanding is correct, how is this bad at all? It's a way to put to rest people's concerns and pearl-clutching over children accessing adult content without every individual app and service provider contracting with Palantir to scan you and guess your age. Instead they can just read the IsAdult header and call it a day. What's the cost to user-freedom? You have to be presented a Date of Birth field or I Am an Adult / Teen / Child selector when setting up a device... a thing that every operating system impacted by this law already does.
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