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EU mandates replaceable batteries by 2027 (2023)

environment.ec.europa.eu

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Re: EU mandates replaceable batteries by 2027 (2023)

#181

Post by joecool1029 »

peterfirefly wrote: post #177
joecool1029 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My iPhone SE (1st gen) ended up being pushed apart from the inside last year because the battery had swelled up. Let’s put aside that this is a 10 year old phone now and well and truly obsolete, you actually didn’t get the basic maintenance done. Batteries all fail and degrade with time, especially if abused and left in extreme heat. The original SE had perhaps the most user replaceable battery in an iPhone. No par…

Please reread what you are replying to and who wrote what.

> To top it all off you then go onto weird virtue signaling about children breathing recycling fumes, how about you climb off your high horse and maintain your own equipment for a change?

Apologies about this part, you are correct that this wasn't your words, the rest of what I wrote I still stand behind. Mostly, it's a problem that you seem to believe that because of incremental improvements in battery technology, we're at a point where it's acceptable to make devices an end-user can't service. That we can't design for water/dust ingress protection and have an easier to replace battery.

Realistically batteries currently made reach end of service life around 3 years, previously it was around 2. People using devices heavily (gaming/videoconferencing) or living in hot climates will have shorter service life. You can push them past the 80% health threshold, but then it's throttling, risk of bulging, etc. You got 9 or so years out of a SE using the battery long past its service life.

But you, (yes, you!) act like everything's currently fine with designs and that we won't burn up the batteries sooner. I'm saying that is misguided and it doesn't line up to the reality you've experienced directly (which is that batteries are still a consumable that need to be replaced eventually). You probably haven't got your hands dirty to DIY, nor are you aware of how they made it harder than it has to be (some manufacturers don't put adhesive tabs on the batteries to pull off). You don't understand that it's possible for the engineering divisions to design a no compromise device that's easier to service and the only reason manufacturers don't is because of the pervasive mindset of: 'Well the battery is cooked, time to buy a new device'. Apple basically still designs their devices for maintenance, but they did it in a way to require specialized equipment.

You're clearly not a device lessee if using the device that long, so why have lessee mindset?

Re: EU mandates replaceable batteries by 2027 (2023)

#182

Post by [deleted] »

Reason077 wrote: post #176
nutjob2 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're confusing swappable with replaceable. It's not for when you run out of power its for when the battery stops holding a charge. Phones almost always last much longer than their batteries.

I’m not, I’m just explaining why swap-ability is no longer as necessary or useful as it once was, and unlikely to make a comeback. Smartphones have always had replaceable batteries, and in the case of the iPhone, they’ve been compliant with the upcoming EU battery regulation since the iPhone 16 or so.

[deleted]

Re: EU mandates replaceable batteries by 2027 (2023)

#183

Post by joecool1029 »

ruszki wrote: post #162
peterfirefly wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what's wrong. Maybe an app that runs too much when it shouldn't? I know that the Facebook app used to be a battery killer roughly a decade ago. The battery on the Pixel 6a should be good enough to make the phone run a whole day with no problem. It's almost exactly the same size as the battery in my iPhone 16e that has excellent battery life.

My iPhone, when it was new, 3 and a half years ago, could handle two days, while I used it heavily, with hotspot on for hours at places where signal was terrible. GPS was almost always on. And I used it heavily because I was on the go a lot. Two years later it couldn’t handle 12 hours if I use hotspot the same way for half the time as before, because I travel less, and even for that I needed to optimize already some…

> All of these devices lie to me, that I lost less than 20% of battery health. Where in reality it’s somewhere between 25-50%, and when they wouldn’t pretend that maximum output is any way a good indicator of the real battery life, aka how long you can use a device.

FWIW, I've only directly witnessed this so far on Oneplus devices, others have remarked the health gauge on these seem to use gacha mechanics where health % will be all over the place. (like >10% variability). I have theories as to why this happens, it's in firmware not OS as LineageOS shows same behavior.... but tough to really know for sure if this was by design or not.

Oh and charge thresholds only do so much, heat kills batteries reliably fast. Deep discharges under 20% or so seem to run more risk of electrolyte breakdown. Don't fear fast charge in bulk charge range, it causes less wear than other factors. I slammed the 65W charge into my 8T's and still got years of >80% battery, replacement wasn't too hard to do on these.

Re: EU mandates replaceable batteries by 2027 (2023)

#184

Post by tolerance »

gruez wrote: post #179
tolerance wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how is popularity determined?

Where is this going?

I can’t help but feel like you’re drawing this freedom along arbitrary limits. If something is subject to whether it’s popular shouldn’t there be forces who influence that?

Re: EU mandates replaceable batteries by 2027 (2023)

#185

Post by gruez »

tolerance wrote: post #184
gruez wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where is this going?

I can’t help but feel like you’re drawing this freedom along arbitrary limits. If something is subject to whether it’s popular shouldn’t there be forces who influence that?

>I can’t help but feel like you’re drawing this freedom along arbitrary limits

I'm not. Saying that freedom of speech is for unpopular opinions doesn't imply it only protects unpopular opinions, any more than saying that wheelchair ramps are for wheelchairs doesn't imply only wheelchair people can use it.

Re: EU mandates replaceable batteries by 2027 (2023)

#186

Post by tolerance »

gruez wrote: post #185
tolerance wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t help but feel like you’re drawing this freedom along arbitrary limits. If something is subject to whether it’s popular shouldn’t there be forces who influence that?

>I can’t help but feel like you’re drawing this freedom along arbitrary limits I'm not. Saying that freedom of speech is for unpopular opinions doesn't imply it only protects unpopular opinions, any more than saying that wheelchair ramps are for wheelchairs doesn't imply only wheelchair people can use it.

If we’re discussing wheelchair ramps we are going to default to matters related to people in wheelchairs first because they are who the ramps are for.

Whether a person is in a wheelchair and the access that wheelchair ramps are meant to provide them is seldom arbitrary. Is it not? For example, there are comprehensive laws in the US that regulate them.

https://www.access-board.gov/ada/guides/chapter-4-ramps-and-...

You said freedom of speech is exactly what unpopular opinions are for. What do you mean? If popularity isn’t subject to the arbitrary whims of people then how is it determined?

Can popularity be regulated like wheelchair accessibility? If so then how is it anything but inevitable that someone’s freedom of speech will be restricted depending on the nature of the law.

Re: EU mandates replaceable batteries by 2027 (2023)

#187

Post by tzs »

Someone wrote: post #147
cyberrock wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU directive doesn't even compel them to have those kinds of removable batteries in the EU, because being removable with commercially available tools is considered compliant [0]. The topic has been too obfuscated with hype pieces. Still, it would be nice to not have to break glass and melt glue to open up phones. [0] https://repair.eu/news/making-batteries-removable-and-replac...

> The EU directive doesn't even compel them to have those kinds of removable batteries in the EU, because being removable with commercially available tools is considered compliant This is a follow-up directive that goes further. https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL... : “Any natural or legal person that places on the market products incorporating portable batteries shall ensure that those batt…

Why disallow requiring thermal energy? Electric hair dryers are common in Europe.

Re: EU mandates replaceable batteries by 2027 (2023)

#188

Post by nephihaha »

peterfirefly wrote: post #93
nephihaha wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have such mixed feelings about the EU right now. This battery initiative is definitely a good idea, but I am not onboard with their constant attempts at censorship.

The problem is the member states -- and the voters in the member states. The EU is only a coordination mechanism for those states. It's nothing like the federal layer of the US, or the federal layer of Germany for that matter. Many member states want censorship. Many MEPs want censorship.

The political class is a law unto itself wherever they are. Of course they want censorship... They can't have people exposing their stupidity and corruption.

Re: EU mandates replaceable batteries by 2027 (2023)

#189

Post by gruez »

tolerance wrote: post #186
gruez wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I can’t help but feel like you’re drawing this freedom along arbitrary limits I'm not. Saying that freedom of speech is for unpopular opinions doesn't imply it only protects unpopular opinions, any more than saying that wheelchair ramps are for wheelchairs doesn't imply only wheelchair people can use it.

If we’re discussing wheelchair ramps we are going to default to matters related to people in wheelchairs first because they are who the ramps are for. Whether a person is in a wheelchair and the access that wheelchair ramps are meant to provide them is seldom arbitrary. Is it not? For example, there are comprehensive laws in the US that regulate them. https://www.access-board.gov/ada/guides/chapter-4-ramps-and-... Yo…

>Whether a person is in a wheelchair and the access that wheelchair ramps are meant to provide them is seldom arbitrary. Is it not? For example, there are comprehensive laws in the US that regulate them.

>https://www.access-board.gov/ada/guides/chapter-4-ramps-and-...

There's also comprehensive case law on what is first amendment protected speech, but how "comprehensive" the relevant regulations are is irrelevant to my point. Despite regulations clearly intending wheelchair ramps to be used by people in wheelchairs, anyone can use them. We don't ask "how is a wheelchair user determined" or whatever.

Re: EU mandates replaceable batteries by 2027 (2023)

#190

Post by xnx »

mentalgear wrote: post #13

The EU is displaying exactly the kind of political leadership we need in this topic: pro-consumer, pro-environment, and firmly against planned obsolescence. Removable batteries were the industry standard in the early days of mobile phones, and it worked perfectly. We only lost that standard when Apple’s 'walled garden' mindset infected the rest of the industry. The amount of avoidable e-waste generated since then is…

> We only lost that standard when Apple’s 'walled garden' mindset infected the rest of the industry.

You're really grasping here. Is it possible that non-removable batteries offer a better tradeoff of capacity, size, weight, durability, water resistance, and safety?

> The amount of avoidable e-waste generated since then is unfathomable:

Equally possible that removable batteries would generate more waste in the form of extra packaging since it is very rare to replace phone batteries. We also now have a defacto standard in the form of magsafe batteries.

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