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Amazon Ring's lost dog ad sparks backlash amid fears of mass surveillance

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Re: Amazon Ring's lost dog ad sparks backlash amid fears of mass surveillance

#181

Post by mrob »

slg wrote: post #176
mrob wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Starship Troopers (the movie) is a terrible example of satire because it fails to show anything substantially bad. When you present a society that's more ethical than real life, nobody's going to care if some people wear uniforms that look a bit like Nazi uniforms. There is a genuine existential risk, and it's addressed in the best way possible. Military slavery ("conscription") is more evil than disenfranchisement,…

This is all intentional. The film is emulating the type of film that would be produced by this fascist regime, of course it isn't going to include proof of the fascists being wrong. But we also don't see any evidence in support of their claims of an "existential threat" beyond the fascists claiming there is one. And since it's from the fascist perspective, the lack of evidence justifying their actions ends up support…

>The film is emulating the type of film that would be produced by this fascist regime.

There's no frame story to support this. Going by the available evidence in the movie itself, it's a conventional action movie.

Re: Amazon Ring's lost dog ad sparks backlash amid fears of mass surveillance

#182

Post by rootusrootus »

HiPhish wrote: post #159
pibaker wrote: post #76

There would be less backlash to the Ring ad if the ad was honest about how people actually use it. Show us porch pirates, burglars and stupid neighbor who backs into your car being caught on camera. But instead, they have to come up with something "wholesome" like finding your lost doggo. The wholesomeness is so forced and cringe that it makes you think they have something to hide. It almost feels like the people who…

> porch pirates It absolutely boggles my mind that it's legal in the US for a deliverer to just leave a package out in the open for anyone to pick up and consider it "delivered". Might as well just throw it out of the window of your car, it has the same chance of getting picked up by the recipient. Where I live the package has to be handed over to the recipient. If the recipient is not available it will be handed ove…

Do you live somewhere with high crime? The reason deliveries work this way in the US is that porch pirates are uncommon. There is a flurry of them during the holidays, but even then, the vast majority of deliveries are just fine.

> What are you going to do with that information?

Nothing, because by the time I look at my doorbell camera I would already have told the shipper the package was swiped and they will have shipped a replacement. They might take it up with the shipper, or call it a cost of doing business, whatever, but it won't be -my- problem.

Re: Amazon Ring's lost dog ad sparks backlash amid fears of mass surveillance

#183

Post by doctorpangloss »

mjr00 wrote: post #20

The Dark Knight was released in 2008. In that movie, Batman hijacks citizens' cellphones to track down the Joker, and it's presented as a major moral and ethical dilemma as part of the movie's overall themes. The only way Batman remains a "good guy" in the eyes of the audience is by destroying the entire thing once he's done. Crazy to think that less than two decades later, an even more powerful surveillance technolo…

let's get this stupid social media purity test thing out of the way: blah blah blah, i oppose surveillance.

now that that's over, the phone is definitely more powerful surveillance technology than a ring camera

you can turn off your phone, so uh, it's not as powerful as it seems.

and practically speaking, ring cameras run out of battery all the time. and also, you can cover them.

the stupidest thing about this whole discourse is that, by participating in it in the particular way that you are, you are feeding directly into what Amazon wants, which is for their absolutely dogshit technology to be perceived as something a lot more valuable and powerful than it really is.

Re: Amazon Ring's lost dog ad sparks backlash amid fears of mass surveillance

#184

Post by slg »

mrob wrote: post #181
slg wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is all intentional. The film is emulating the type of film that would be produced by this fascist regime, of course it isn't going to include proof of the fascists being wrong. But we also don't see any evidence in support of their claims of an "existential threat" beyond the fascists claiming there is one. And since it's from the fascist perspective, the lack of evidence justifying their actions ends up support…

>The film is emulating the type of film that would be produced by this fascist regime. There's no frame story to support this. Going by the available evidence in the movie itself, it's a conventional action movie.

>There's no frame story to support this.

There definitely is. No one on screen looks into camera and says this directly, but the whole recurring "Would you like to know more?" bit is supposed to tip the viewer off that what they're watching is a product of the government's propaganda efforts.

I truly don't know how you can watch this [1] and conclude we're meant to fully trust them as the 100% honest truth.

[1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cktmS-yaxM

Re: Amazon Ring's lost dog ad sparks backlash amid fears of mass surveillance

#185

Post by dyauspitr »

toephu2 wrote: post #125
thewebguyd wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Me, absolutely not. Unfortunately, my opinion seems to be increasingly in the minority and more and more people will happily be surveilled for even just an illusory promise of safety. The harsh truth is that safety/security can never be guaranteed. No amount of surveillance will 100% prevent any individual from being a victim of a crime. Surveillance might help catching the criminal to face justice afterwards, but it…

There is no expectation of privacy in the public setting though. Anyone can record you in public without your permission. > No amount of surveillance will 100% prevent any individual from being a victim of a crime. No, but if it reduces crime by 99% would you be in favor of it? (See South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore.. examples of democratic countries with CCTVs all over the public space.. and before you say well those a…

Singapore is very diverse racially… with groups that aren’t generally known to be very criminal. It’s mostly a mix of Chinese, Malays and Indians. I doubt the CCTVs have much to do with it.

Re: Amazon Ring's lost dog ad sparks backlash amid fears of mass surveillance

#186

Post by throwway120385 »

Archelaos wrote: post #170
jedberg wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone's Ring doorbells and cameras.

Is it legal in the USA to point them on public ground?

Yes it's legal to record spaces that are generally visible to the public.

Re: Amazon Ring's lost dog ad sparks backlash amid fears of mass surveillance

#187

Post by throwway120385 »

idle_zealot wrote: post #180
foobar_______ wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like your take. I see this same thing playing out across many parts of the world. Dont hate the player hate the game It is about incentives and rules of the "game" that drive things. Sure, there are a few evil people but the vast majority of it is normal people responding to broken rules/incentives. Probably you and I both fall in this category :)

> Dont hate the player hate the game To be clear, you can absolutely hate the player in addition to the game. That's for you to decide on a case-by-case basis. It's just important to recognize the broader context, especially if want to leave a positive impact.

Especially as we could all... stop playing, and then the game would end.

Re: Amazon Ring's lost dog ad sparks backlash amid fears of mass surveillance

#188

Post by dyauspitr »

toephu2 wrote: post #120
dyauspitr wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That has always been the question. Are you willing to be constantly surveilled for marginally more security?

If it leads to a high-trust society, yes. (e.g., see Singapore)

Surveillance and a high trust society are diametrically opposed concepts. You don’t need a high trust society if you have total surveillance and vice versa.

Re: Amazon Ring's lost dog ad sparks backlash amid fears of mass surveillance

#189

Post by zanecodes »

toephu2 wrote: post #120
dyauspitr wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That has always been the question. Are you willing to be constantly surveilled for marginally more security?

If it leads to a high-trust society, yes. (e.g., see Singapore)

I'm pretty sure that if you need ubiquitous surveillance to ensure that your citizens don't commit crimes, you don't have a high-trust society, by definition.

Re: Amazon Ring's lost dog ad sparks backlash amid fears of mass surveillance

#190

Post by AnthonyMouse »

AlexandrB wrote: post #110
steezeburger wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they take issue with how it was ultimately okay to do to catch the Joker as long as Batman didn't use it and gave power to Luscious who resigned, instead of just calling it out as terrible and not doing it. That's how I read their comment anyway. "apologia"

There's real media illiteracy in watching a character in a film do a thing and assume that means the filmmaker is endorsing that thing. This has the same vibe as the Hays Code[1] which mandated that the bad guys in film must always get their comeuppance. > All criminal action had to be punished, and neither the crime nor the criminal could elicit sympathy from the audience, or the audience must at least be aware that…

A major defect with the Hays Code is that it assumes everything illegal is unethical.

But when you have Hollywood producing this Jack Bauer trash where the protagonist is doing everything that should never be done and is still painted as our hero and champion, that's rightfully criticized as propaganda.

The problem isn't when the bad guys are seen to get away with it, the problem is when the bad guys are made out to be the good guys. If they get away with it and it doesn't leave you feeling uncomfortable then it better be because the point was that they were never really the bad guys, because the alternative is to make you sympathize with the wicked.

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