Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#181

Post by MikeNotThePope » Tue, Feb 10, 2026, 10:12 PM UTC

sam345 wrote: post #97

legitster wrote: post #32

So I don't think I actually have a problem with businesses handing over their customer data if there is a valid warrant or subpoena. That's the system working as intended. The main crux of the problem here is that the DHS has been granted a wide berth by congress to issue administrative subpoenas - i.e. not reviewed by a real judge and not directed at criminals. In "good" times this made investigations run smoothly.…

I'm not an expert in fourth amendment but I do know that assuming a subpoena without judicial oversight violates the fourth amendment is not correct. All the fourth amendment guarantees is unreasonable search and seizure. In some circumstances a judicial subpoena may be necessary and others not. An administrative subpoena implies that there has been a legal procedure and the administrative agencies are not exactly ru…

If the party on the receiving end of a search needs to be a lawyer to simply understand the legality of a warrant, I’d argue the search is unreasonable.

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#182

Post by h4kunamata » Tue, Feb 10, 2026, 10:12 PM UTC

legitster wrote: post #32

So I don't think I actually have a problem with businesses handing over their customer data if there is a valid warrant or subpoena. That's the system working as intended. The main crux of the problem here is that the DHS has been granted a wide berth by congress to issue administrative subpoenas - i.e. not reviewed by a real judge and not directed at criminals. In "good" times this made investigations run smoothly.…

>"So I don't think I actually have a problem with businesses handing over their customer data if there is a valid warrant or subpoena. That's the system working as intended."

This person right here is the problem in our society. Things never and will never get isolated to "valid warrant".

Look around us, social after social media in order to "protect the kids", you must provide your personal information to them. Many people see nothing wrong with that and yet, service after service, business after business are being breached left and right.

Discord will mandate ID verification, just recently they have been breached.

Back to the article, if Google can do that for an immigrant, what make you think that Google won't do the same with your data as citizen whenever for whatever reason??

Don't agree with things you don't fully understand its consequences.

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#183

Post by Nasrudith » Tue, Feb 10, 2026, 10:14 PM UTC

reddozen wrote: post #173

shevy-java wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how what has been described here as "the system works as intended". A free state should not be able to sniff after people for made up reasons.

You can't write rules against bad actors. There will always be some legal loophole a bad president can invent to exploit. if not for administrative warrants we would see some other creative (read: illegal) use of executive power. The only option is to not elect someone that doesn't respect rule of law. And since I know some enlightened "centrist" will play the both sides game: What's 1 thing any previous president ha…

I strongly disagree. You should always write rules under the assumption it will get in the hands of the worst people. If there is a 'become god-emperor' lever in your supposedly democratic government system then it is a shitty system.

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#184

Post by mindslight » Tue, Feb 10, 2026, 10:16 PM UTC

bigbadfeline wrote: post #121

mindslight wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So we agree, including that there is a difference.

> So we agree, including that there is a difference. No, that's a distinction without a difference. I mean, it doesn't matter in the slightest if at some point in time certain powers weren't abused , if they're being abused now the situation cannot be tolerated. Arguing about how it's possible not to abuse the system is a waste of time at best and a diversion at worst.

I'm not arguing that it's possible to not abuse the system. I've recognized abuses for quite some time, regardless of which political team has been in power. The point is that we need to avoid normalizing our current situation by pointing to previous abuses.

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#185

Post by behole » Tue, Feb 10, 2026, 10:29 PM UTC

legitster wrote: post #32

So I don't think I actually have a problem with businesses handing over their customer data if there is a valid warrant or subpoena. That's the system working as intended. The main crux of the problem here is that the DHS has been granted a wide berth by congress to issue administrative subpoenas - i.e. not reviewed by a real judge and not directed at criminals. In "good" times this made investigations run smoothly.…

[flagged]

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#186

Post by bigyabai » Tue, Feb 10, 2026, 10:31 PM UTC

rchaud wrote: post #131

charcircuit wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Do you have any specifics about the law they allegedly broke?

Doubtful, charcircuit deliberately writes inflammatory comments just to throw them over the fence and refuse to elaborate.

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#187

Post by hodgehog11 » Tue, Feb 10, 2026, 10:32 PM UTC

h4kunamata wrote: post #182

legitster wrote: post #32

So I don't think I actually have a problem with businesses handing over their customer data if there is a valid warrant or subpoena. That's the system working as intended. The main crux of the problem here is that the DHS has been granted a wide berth by congress to issue administrative subpoenas - i.e. not reviewed by a real judge and not directed at criminals. In "good" times this made investigations run smoothly.…

>"So I don't think I actually have a problem with businesses handing over their customer data if there is a valid warrant or subpoena. That's the system working as intended." This person right here is the problem in our society. Things never and will never get isolated to "valid warrant". Look around us, social after social media in order to "protect the kids", you must provide your personal information to them. Many…

Maybe it is to a child or average citizen, but I don't believe that "not understanding the consequences" is the case here on HN. This is just a difference in philosophy, the old "freedom vs. security" tradeoff that everyone falls down on a little differently. Giving up your data to a company (and therefore the government) in exchange for services is a trust exercise, and there are ways to avoid making it, but they have significant unavoidable costs. It's an easier decision when you don't fear your own government, but where you fall on the spectrum rapidly changes when your government makes you the target. Of course you can say "the government is always going to turn on you, so you should never trust them!", but you'll sound like a loon to many native citizens of a Western nation that have had little to fear for decades.

The US is just experiencing a little more of what the citizens of communist and fascist nations have experienced. Over time, that might lead to rapid societal change, or maybe it's too late.

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#188

Post by autoexec » Tue, Feb 10, 2026, 10:38 PM UTC

frumplestlatz wrote: post #179

autoexec wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's a constitutional right to record them doing their duties, in public. That's clear. Less clear than it used to be https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mario_Guevara_(journalist)

From the wikipedia article: "Guevara was ordered removed from the United States by an immigration judge in 2012"

The removal case was administratively closed on appeal which meant that he was legally authorized to stay in the US while waiting for a green card application to go through.

He was here on a work permit when the police arrested him for filming a protest. Journalism isn't a crime so all the charges connected to his arrest were dropped, but ICE placed a detainer on him to keep him locked up anyway. A judge granted him bond so that he could be released but ICE fought that too and continued to keep him locked up. Finally they reopened the 2012 case and used that to kick him out of the country.

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#189

Post by wombat-man » Tue, Feb 10, 2026, 10:38 PM UTC

shevy-java wrote: post #110

legitster wrote: post #32

So I don't think I actually have a problem with businesses handing over their customer data if there is a valid warrant or subpoena. That's the system working as intended. The main crux of the problem here is that the DHS has been granted a wide berth by congress to issue administrative subpoenas - i.e. not reviewed by a real judge and not directed at criminals. In "good" times this made investigations run smoothly.…

I don't see how what has been described here as "the system works as intended". A free state should not be able to sniff after people for made up reasons.

The archive link isn't working for me atm.

But tech companies should be complying with subpoenas from governments in countries they would like to operate in. I don't like what is happening in the US either, but to me this feels like a problem with the electorate. Maybe it's possible for Google to provide some of these services without actually having access to the data under subpoena, but I don't know enough about what services they were using or how they work.

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#190

Post by MetaWhirledPeas » Tue, Feb 10, 2026, 10:38 PM UTC

shevy-java wrote: post #110

legitster wrote: post #32

So I don't think I actually have a problem with businesses handing over their customer data if there is a valid warrant or subpoena. That's the system working as intended. The main crux of the problem here is that the DHS has been granted a wide berth by congress to issue administrative subpoenas - i.e. not reviewed by a real judge and not directed at criminals. In "good" times this made investigations run smoothly.…

I don't see how what has been described here as "the system works as intended". A free state should not be able to sniff after people for made up reasons.

Re-read the first few sentences of his post.

> if there is a valid warrant or subpoena