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Where did all the starships go?

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Re: Where did all the starships go?

#181

Post by coldtea »

krapp wrote: post #114
boothby wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And now I'm picturing a dragon with bombardier-beetle style pulsed jet boosters. And while I'd typically question your assumptions of how big dragons need to be in order to deserve the name, I'll assert that quetzocoatlus nothropi [1] was big enough. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quetzalcoatlus

"Dragon" as a classification is odd, because when you look at every kind of mythological creature that gets classified as such nowadays, sometimes from cultures that wouldn't have recognized the concept, you find that they have little in common beyond some vaguely reptilian vibe and being scary. And I'm sorry but that thing is too goofy looking to be considered a dragon.

That's begging the question. We don't need to look "at every kind of mythological creature that gets classified as such nowadays" from "cultures that wouldn't have recognized the concept".

One could stick on those classified as such in western culture - which is where the fantasy novel about dragons and knights and spells and the rest are based on.

And in there, dragons have quite specific characteristic and vibes, as evidenced from medieval iconography of St George to countless fantasy book covers and illustrations.

Re: Where did all the starships go?

#182

Post by WalterBright »

kentm wrote: post #166
WalterBright wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> hiring a private investigator Only after being sued. When you sue someone, they're going to try to defend themselves. Both of them should have just shrugged it off. > then writing scathing emails doesn't make someone evil. The whole incident was childish from both sides, but nobody was actually hurt.

He hired the private investigator before he was sued. You left out the part where he claimed a person was a pedophile and when asked if it was just an insult basically said “no I really think he’s a pedophile”, and started stating made up bullshit about child brides as fact. He only backtracked when he was sued. That is NOT the same as just throwing insults.

More nuance:

"Mr. Musk made these statements based on reports he received from a private investigator he hired to investigate Mr. Unsworth in preparation for the litigation that Mr. Unsworth had already threatened. Unbeknownst to Mr. Musk, the investigator’s reports were fabricated, and the investigator himself turned out to be a convicted felon who had gone to prison for fraud."

"Mr. Musk’s tweet was the culmination of an argument between two people that was punctuated by insults—not a factual accusation of the crime of pedophilia. The firm also demonstrated that Mr. Unsworth had not suffered any injury."

There's more: https://www.quinnemanuel.com/the-firm/our-notable-victories/...

Childish behavior - sure (on both sides). Anybody hurt - no.

Re: Where did all the starships go?

#183

Post by coldtea »

gpm wrote: post #141
nine_k wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interstellar space contains neutral hydrogen atoms. Hitting a spaceship, they would produce electromagnetic radiation. When the collision speed goes past about 0.25c, the radiation becomes hard gamma rays which are dangerous to living things, and cannot be efficiently shielded against. At this speed, the time dilation is slightly above 3%, so you're still not going to reach even Alpha Centauri in one human lifetime,…

Alpha Centauri is only 4.2 light years away. 0.25c is definitely enough to reach it. You could even do a round trip in only your adult years.

Yeah, if you take the highly unlikely and already lethat 0.25c achievability as a given.

Re: Where did all the starships go?

#184

Post by coldtea »

HoldOnAMinute wrote: post #101
chasil wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, we've realized the scientific reality that traveling faster than light is likely impossible, and the vast distances to other habitable planets would mean tens of thousands of years of travel even with the most efficient technology. Interstellar space is also hostile to life, and any life present at the destination will not use the same DNA coding for protein (if gene expression even works that way). We also do…

That's true, but stop to consider all the things we ARE doing... * Space Station that lasts 25 years * 3,000 satellites providing Internet Service * Mars rovers that run for 10+ years * Flying helicopters on Mars

We call it a "space" station. It's a glorified LEO station.

Re: Where did all the starships go?

#185

Post by Dylan16807 »

squeaky-clean wrote: post #84
bot403 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure your point. It's fiction. Are we closer to finding dragons, faeries, or magic? Visiting remote planets is as unlikely as riding a dragon. But both make for great stories.

Science Fiction doesn't have to be fantasy, it can be speculative. But if your setting or plot relies on something we know to be scientifically untrue, and you don't put some effort into explaining why it somehow works in your setting, it's fantasy and not speculative. Someone like Asimov never considered his books to be fantasy and that he could just insert whatever he wanted with no justification. In fact, he never…

> But if your setting or plot relies on something we know to be scientifically untrue, and you don't put some effort into explaining why it somehow works in your setting, it's fantasy and not speculative.

Agreed but only because "some effort" could be as little as a single paragraph.

> But detective stories don't work if your world isn't grounded in something real. Otherwise the reader can't reasonably build their own theory or deduce the answer because it's based on what the author thought was cool and not what logically connects.

If you only change a tiny bit, this isn't a major issue.

> The appeal of something like The Expanse just falls apart if you introduce a FTL engine just because it makes for a more dramatic story moment somewhere in the plot unless there is some serious justification as to why the author didn't just break all the rules of their world (which is supposed to be our world, but in the future).

That specific story falls apart but you could have lots of thematically similar stories with FTL. No need for "serious justification" unless you're trying to pull it out of nowhere halfway through the plot. If it's there from the start, there's no problem.

Re: Where did all the starships go?

#186

Post by coldtea »

jfengel wrote: post #47
Alex-Programs wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is motivated pessimism. We knew in the 50s that breaking the speed of light was highly unlikely. We dreamed of the stars anyway. Now we refuse to dream, or to even attempt to solve the problems (a common pattern when discussing spaceflight is people who are blatantly searching for problems, rather than solutions), because we are pessimistic, devoid of imagination, and seek to legitimise our collective depression…

You don't need to break the speed of light to get to the stars. Time dilation and space contraction mean that you can get there in as little time as you desire. Everyone you knew on earth would be dead by the time you got back, but if it's just about you, the speed of light is no limitation at all. (The rocket equation, however, presents stupendous engineering challenges.)

>but if it's just about you, the speed of light is no limitation at all

It's a huge limitation, even just getting propelled to "big enough speed", say 1/10 the speed of light.

We barely do 1/1500 the speed of light, in unmanned probes, and only because we sling shot on Solar gravity, not as propulsion or anything, and at 1400 o Celcius, plus deadly radiation, not to mention any micro-meteor as big as a particle of dust could kill someone there).

Re: Where did all the starships go?

#187

Post by Dylan16807 »

WJW wrote: post #89
dboreham wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably these are equally likely because you could build a DNA-printer and thereby create a dragon of some sort (not sure if it could have fully functional fire breathing though)?

Dragons are physically impossible in many more ways than the firebreathing. For one, things that large would probably struggle to fly. We can make larger things fly, but have to cheat using jet (or rocket!) engines to generate incredible thrust in ways not typically accessible to living beings.

You can make a setting with denser air and less gravity too.

Re: Where did all the starships go?

#188

Post by Dylan16807 »

coldtea wrote: post #183
gpm wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alpha Centauri is only 4.2 light years away. 0.25c is definitely enough to reach it. You could even do a round trip in only your adult years.

Yeah, if you take the highly unlikely and already lethat 0.25c achievability as a given.

That is the context the above comments are talking in.

Well, except that you changed below lethal to already lethal.

Re: Where did all the starships go?

#190

Post by Dylan16807 »

HoldOnAMinute wrote: post #101
chasil wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, we've realized the scientific reality that traveling faster than light is likely impossible, and the vast distances to other habitable planets would mean tens of thousands of years of travel even with the most efficient technology. Interstellar space is also hostile to life, and any life present at the destination will not use the same DNA coding for protein (if gene expression even works that way). We also do…

That's true, but stop to consider all the things we ARE doing... * Space Station that lasts 25 years * 3,000 satellites providing Internet Service * Mars rovers that run for 10+ years * Flying helicopters on Mars

Stop to consider them for what purpose? Thinking they're cool? Yeah they're cool. But they have very little to do with interstellar travel, in the way that a canoe has little to do with investigating deep-sea vents.
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