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Mobile carriers can get your GPS location

an.dywa.ng

181–190 of 622 posts

Re: Mobile carriers can get your GPS location

#181
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How that works is simple: there are regulations that force that the microphone used for calling is directly connected to the "baseband", which is under control of the carrier. It has to be, because of AT&T's argument: ONE misbehaving baseband can make cell phones inoperable in an area that's up to a kilometer in diameter. So AT&T's cell towers "need" to be able to send out a signal that permanently disables a phone's…

> Regulations say the baseband MUST control: all wireless signals (including wifi and GPS), all microphones and speakers, and it must be able to disable the camera electrically. It must have a tamper-resistant identifier (IMEI number ... kind of). This is simply not true. Source: I own a phone where this is not the case. Many Linux phones internally attach their wireless devices via USB, so there is good separation.…

Connecting a cellular radio via USB provides far less isolation than the approach of a tiny kernel driver connected to an IOMMU isolated cellular radio on mainstream devices. USB has immense complexity and attack surface, especially with a standard Linux kernel configuration. Forensic data extraction companies mostly haven't bothered using attack vectors other than USB due to it being such a weak point. Many of the things people claim about cellular radios in mainstream smartphones are largely not true and they're missing that other radios are implemented in a very comparable way.

Cellular, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, GNSS NFC, UWB, etc. do get implemented on secondary processors running their own OS but on mainstream smartphones those are typically well isolated and don't have privileged access to other components. The cellular radio in an iPhone or Pixel is on a separate chip but that's a separate thing from it being isolated. Snapdragon devices with cellular implemented by the main SoC still have an isolated radio. Snapdragon implements multiple radios via isolated processes in a microkernel-based RTOS where the overall baseband is also isolated from the rest of the device. There are a lot of lower quality implementations than iPhones, Pixels and Snapdragon devices but the intention is still generally to have the radios isolated even if they don't do it as well as those.

Re: Mobile carriers can get your GPS location

#182

Emergency services (with the proper software) have been able to get your precise location from your phone for a while now. This isn’t a new capability and shouldn’t be surprising.

Surely that only happens when the phone user dials 911 ?

You're thinking of Phase II E911 in the US.

That's true, but you can always be triangulated down a couple hundred meters by figuring out which towers you're connected to.

Re: Mobile carriers can get your GPS location

#183

"and notify the user when such attempts are made to their device." We aren't going to remove the security state. We should make all attempts to, but it won't happen. What needs to happen is accountability. I should be able to turn off sharing personal information and if someone tries I should be notified and have recourse. This should also be retroactive. If I have turned off sharing and someone finds a technical loo…

> We aren't going to remove the security state

What security state? They aren't doing this for anyone's safety. This is the surveillance and parallel construction state.

> What needs to happen is accountability.

No agency can have this power and remain accountable. Warrants are not an effective tool for managing this. Courts cannot effectively perform oversight after the fact.

> The only way to stop the rampant abuse is to treat data like fire.

You've missed the obvious. You should really go the other direction. Our devices should generate _noise_. Huge crazy amounts of noise. Extraneous data to a level that pollutes the system beyond any utility. They accept all this data without filtering. They should suffer for that choice.

Re: Mobile carriers can get your GPS location

#184
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple doc: https://support.apple.com/en-us/126101 Only Boost Mobile in the U.S. Weird. About 7.5M subscribers. Maybe it requires 5G? Wonder if it works when roaming? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boost_Mobile https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mobile_network_operato... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5G_NR

AFAIK, other than maybe some 5G, Boost Mobile just resells service from AT&T.

Boost Mobile (under Dish Network), until a few months ago, ran their own custom-built 5G network that covered about 30% of the US population. They built it after the acquisition of Sprint by T-Mobile, in an effort to maintain a fourth nationwide wireless carrier.

Unfortunately Boost/Dish struggled significantly with finances and customer attraction post COVID, largely due to two problems (seamless roaming between their own network and partners’, and more importantly, getting manufacturers like Apple to build compatible phones). When the current president came into the picture, the FCC essentially forced the sale of Dish’s primary spectrum licenses to administration-friendly SpaceX, for future Starlink use.

As of now, they are in the process of moving their customers to AT&T (and possibly a secondary agreement with T-Mobile), but they seem to be maintaining their own network core - that’s likely why they’re able to implement support for this, while AT&T does not.

Re: Mobile carriers can get your GPS location

#185

euhm, well. 112 programmer here. There are multiple levels. Cell tower triangulation come in automatically from providers. But they are only in tower numbers. They might be wrongly entered by engineers, hence the confirming question about where you are. Second is subscription information, as in registered address. Chances are if called from nearby your address, you are at your address. Next is a text to your phone nu…

American carriers have a different protocol than the EU. The EU (and probably EU derived networks) uses a """secret""" SMS format that's opt-in, but the 911 system works differently. The 911 feature can be activated fully remotely, the 112 feature is supposed to only activate when dialing an emergency number.

>The 911 feature can be activated fully remotely

Source? Even if the phone isn't actively doing a 911 call?

Re: Mobile carriers can get your GPS location

#186
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We really have a societal problem in that we allow private entities to do things we don’t allow government to do. Furthermore, the issue is exacerbated by then allowing governments to bypass these issues by then just paying private entities to do the things it can’t do as a proxy for the same functional outcomes. But we want to support privatization at all cost, even when privatization these days has significant infl…

> We really have a societal problem in that we allow private entities to do things we don’t allow government to do. Thats basically the foundational idealogy of the united states. Thats not the issue. The real issue is your next sentence. The government can just loophole around their intentional limitations by paying private companies to work on their behalf.

The only private companies with this power are monopolies. Effective competition would destroy this behavior. So the real problem is the government _intentionally_ and _illegally_ allows monopolies to form so they can get access to this workaround.

Re: Mobile carriers can get your GPS location

#187

What if I told you that carriers can also activate your phone's microphone without your knowledge and listen in on your surroundings?

what about Graphene?

GrapheneOS only supports devices with isolated radios including but not limited to cellular. It's one of the hardware requirements:

https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices

The radios on the supported devices can't access the microphone, GNSS, etc.

GrapheneOS has never supported a device without an isolated cellular radio since that isolation was in place even with the initial Nexus 5 and Galaxy S4. However, some of the devices prior to Pixels did have Broadcom Wi-Fi/Bluetooth without proper isolation similar to laptops/desktops. Nexus 5X was the initial device with proper isolation for Wi-Fi/Bluetooth due to having SoC provided Wi-Fi from Qualcomm. Pixels have avoided this issue for integrating Broadcom Wi-Fi/Bluetooth. Nexus devices left this up to companies like LG, Huawei, etc. and anything not done for them by Qualcomm tended to have security neglected. Qualcomm has taken security a lot more seriously than other SoC vendors and typical Android OEMs for a long time and provides good isolation for most of the SoC components.

Don't believe everything you read about smartphone security and especially cellular radios. There are many products with far less secure cellular radios which are far less isolated but rather connected via extremely high attack surface approaches including USB which are claiming those are better. A lot of the misconceptions about cellular come from how companies market supposedly more secure products which are in reality far worse than an iPhone.

Re: Mobile carriers can get your GPS location

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meshcore and -tastic have the huge problem that the encryption keys are bound to the device and not the app.

I agree, there's way too much going on in the firmware, just make a dumb Lora-bluetooth bridge. Hell, just integrate a Lora radio in a phone.

[deleted]

Re: Mobile carriers can get your GPS location

#189

This community should be talking about meshcore more imho. It's a peer to peer network based on Lora. It really only allows text messaging but with up to 20km hops between peers coverage is surprisingly huge. Incredibly useful if you go hiking with friends (if you get split up you can still stay in touch). See https://eastmesh.au/ and scroll down to the map for the Victoria and now more widely Australia network that'…

> This community should be talking about meshcore more imho.

The fundamental problem of distributed networks is that you can either have centralized control of the endpoints, or your network becomes vulnerable to denial-of-service attacks. So meshcore/meshtastic are great because they are used only by well-meaning people. If they become more popular, we'll start getting tons of spam :(

Re: Mobile carriers can get your GPS location

#190

I've noticed that when I travel, I get spam calls from the area code I am visiting. I have asked my cell provider if they monetize my location data, and they swear they aren't. But I don't trust them, given that no one else (other than Apple) would know where I am in real time. Recently switched providers and haven't experienced it since then. Wouldn't be surprised if there was a class action lawsuit someday. Of cour…

Use a VPN next time.

Does it still happen?

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