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Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

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Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#181

Post by com2kid »

charlie0 wrote: post #109
kulahan wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In terms of features I see on high end cars… (no clue if these are available in Chinese cars, just to help you get an idea of what exists) 1. Backup camera with lines that move as you turn the wheel 2. Camera setup that lets you see how close you are to curbs, other cars, etc. from a plethora of unexpected angles (you can get a top-down view of your car! Pretty cool.) 3. Automatic parking when parallel parking 4. “Re…

Lol, 1 to 4 is just called "knowing how to drive". These cameras aren't a serious value add unless you're driving a massive tank, err car.

The rear window in trucks and SUVs is above the head height of a small child. w/o a backup camera there is literally no way to see if a small child is behind you.

So many parents ran over their own child that backup cameras are now mandatory in the US.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#182

Post by coryrc »

andyst wrote: post #6
bnchrch wrote: post #2

While the headline is interesting. I think the table at the end of the article is more so. - Worldwide sales -10% YoY - China sales -26% YoY And when you cross compare Porsche saying they sold more EV powertrains than their gas equivalents against China's new found foothold as the market leader in consumer electric cars (BYD, NIO, Xiaomi, etc...) Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car domin…

in the australian market theres often comparison between how BYD/(chinese brands) may unseat Tesla (as the scale EV first mover), but I haven't seen what I think is the prize, which is BYD want to take on Toyota as the de facto king of global car making. They want the whole car market, not just EV and are already setup to take that on.

Especially as Toyota seems structurally unable to create a good EV. They produced one completely bare-bones model 30 years ago and never expanded past that. At least they're keeping some knowledge of the parts by having PHEVs, but I don't think they're on the leading edge of anything. Maybe they don't need to be and can buy everything from other suppliers, but they're going to be doing a whole lot less than they currently do and not sure they'll keep their profit margin.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#183

Post by etempleton »

avidiax wrote: post #158
Grimblewald wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no OP, but as someone who comes from a family where German cars were king for several reasons, who have all become disillusioned and now buy Asian cars, where the reason is simple. American style corporate greed infested German auto-manufactures and it shows at every level. It is most obvious with things like subscription services for basic function, like acceleration or the seat heaters you already paid for, but it…

I haven't bought German ever, but everything I hear seems pretty negative. Some of the recent models have plastic timing chain guides and have turned the engine around so that the timing chains are in the back. The only innocent explanation is that the car is only meant to last 10 years at most, so saving the money on plastic instead of metal and screwing whoever owns the car when the timing chains need to be redone…

The majority of German Luxury cars are leased more often than bought outright. I think it was Audi where 80% of new car purchases were leases. They are not building the car for long term ownership. They are building the car for people that want to change cars every 3 years.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#184

Post by the_pwner224 »

astrojams wrote: post #85
sklargh wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a few things. 1. They do not have robust self-driving capability. At this level of expense I expect hands-free major highway driving. 2. They’ve removed a lot of physical buttons that improve quality of life, the level of technology in the cabin is simply overwhelming. 3. They’ve done a great job with the driving experience of the EVs but they have poor range relative to the competition.

I have a 2022 Porsche 911. It has a lot of physical controls for things in the cabin like climate control, suspension settings, cruise control, dashboard view, and audio. The car also has an auto steer and cruise control option which will accelerate and brake for you while also keeping the car in the lane. It can go from a stop to whatever speed you set it to. It’s great for traffic on the highway. That’s not too sha…

> That’s not too shabby for a 2022 non EV car

It very much is! (no offense) And EV vs ICE doesn't make a difference, the manufacturers put the same ADAS systems regardless of the powertrain.

BMW has had radar cruise control + lane keeping since 2016 I think? In 2019 they added full hands-free operation in highway traffic (up to 40 mph) as well as auto lane change when you tap the turn signal. In 2023 they have full hands free up to 85 mph on highways, plus auto lane change w/ navigation integration and auto-overtaking (car promps you to check the mirror, then changes lane completely touchless).

A frickin' 2020 Honda Civic has the same ADAS functionality as your '22 Porsche, even on the base trim ($21k). Porsche is way, way behind. And that's before you even get to all of the non-ADAS drivers assistance systems for parking, reversing, etc., which again the other Germans trash Porsche on.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#186

Post by closewith »

appplication wrote: post #43
ericd wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think this is accurate, Chinese firms are increasingly moving up the quality chain. You might want to look at some of the reviews of Xiaomi’s recently launched car. Also, Tesla Shanghai is one of their best factories, much better quality scores than Fremont iirc. Having a totally local, integrated supply chain pays dividends in a lot of ways, as does leading in production volume. Tim Cook also gave that inter…

The issue is not actual quality, it’s perceived quality. Chinese companies will fight decades of history and negative perception to reach top of the market consumers, a segment obsessed with perception.

Where are you based that you hold this impression? Because globally BYD is perceived as having much better build quality than Tesla, rightly or wrongly.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#187

Post by etempleton »

KnuthIsGod wrote: post #40

Global sales of Porsche, Audi, Mercedes and BMW brand ( BMW Group sales increased marginally, but includes) have all declined. The end is in sight for German cars as Chinese made electric cars take over. I have had several German cars. Never again ! Sticking to Japanese and probably Chinese cars in the future. German cars were decent once. Now they are notorious for poor long term reliability.

Porsche / Audi are selling a lot more cars then they were 10-15 years ago. I think they will be okay. Chinese brands will cut into all establish automaker sales, but the German cars have strong brands that symbolize luxury. Look at Land Rover. There are cars are completely unreliable and they are selling more than ever at increasingly ludicrous prices.

I agree with you, but luxury car manufactures largely sell leases. So they are designing their cars for that market.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#188

Post by protocolture »

bnchrch wrote: post #2

While the headline is interesting. I think the table at the end of the article is more so. - Worldwide sales -10% YoY - China sales -26% YoY And when you cross compare Porsche saying they sold more EV powertrains than their gas equivalents against China's new found foothold as the market leader in consumer electric cars (BYD, NIO, Xiaomi, etc...) Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car domin…

>Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car dominance, but of the (very potential) rise of China as the premier automotive super power.

I thought we were there already tbh. Chinese cars have gone from laughably bad to quality parity in less than a decade. Like even 2 years ago, I was still hearing "the paint the paint" as the last remaining issue. But I dont hear that anymore.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#189

Post by randerson »

Braxton1980 wrote: post #103
linksnapzz wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who have purchased Hyundai/Kia products w/ the GDI Theta II engine would, perhaps, take issue with "used to be".

One engine issue due to a manufacturing flaw shouldn't be enough to counter their massive change in produt lines over the years

The E-GMP Hyundai/Kia EV platform is also unreliable. Around 1 in every 50 of these cars will suddenly lose power while driving due to ICCU failure. Search any forum for the EV6 or Ioniq 5 and this is all over. Mine broke down and got towed back to the shop so many times, where it sat for ages because my dealer was sharing a single EV-qualified tech with 2 other dealers. I eventually had the car Lemon Law'd. As far as I know this issue is still unsolved after 4+ years. (The software recall made no difference.) I loved the car when it was working though.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#190

Post by protocolture »

appplication wrote: post #10
bnchrch wrote: post #2

While the headline is interesting. I think the table at the end of the article is more so. - Worldwide sales -10% YoY - China sales -26% YoY And when you cross compare Porsche saying they sold more EV powertrains than their gas equivalents against China's new found foothold as the market leader in consumer electric cars (BYD, NIO, Xiaomi, etc...) Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car domin…

China may become the superpower on volume but I would be surprised if the upper quartile (by price) of western buyers were interested in Chinese vehicles. Too much quality issues across the board on Chinese made products, unless you have a trusted non-Chinese company with stringent quality control (e.g. Apple model). I’m sure they can handily win the lower end of the market though. And yes I’m aware many western manu…

No its the other way. In 4x4 They cannibalised the GM-Holden Colorado chassis production line in Thailand when GM exited that market, have refitted it with chinese made electronics and shell, and have complete quality parity. Actually a few people think the engine is better, and I am forced to agree. One of the colorado downstream models I tested had a better turning circle. They also tend to pack in all the "extras" other brands put on as standard. Consumers face a choice between cheaper and better vs tried and true brand loyalty. And brand loyalty has a limit tbh.
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