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East Germany balloon escape

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Re: East Germany balloon escape

#181

Post by wtcactus »

lutusp wrote: post #123

This true story moves us because it resembles much of human history, in which clever but powerless people struggle against morons -- morons who somehow gain control over a modern industrial state, then use that power to punish innocents who dare to assert simple human rights. People in Moscow, in Gaza, in Tehran, in Minneapolis, are all saying, "How can I rise above this? -- where's my balloon?" Too many morons. Too…

> Moscow, in Gaza, in Tehran, in Minneapolis

Man, you really went ahead and tried to compare Minneapolis with Teharan. This is got me laughing out loud.

Re: East Germany balloon escape

#182

Post by tirant »

RobotToaster wrote: post #105
nephihaha wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember the GDR called the Berlin Wall the "Antifascist Protection Barrier"

There were no fascists in the DDR. There are fascists in the former DDR today. So I guess it worked.

The fascists were everywhere in the DDR: just called members of the party or as part of the Stasi.

And I take the definition of fascists as anyone who prioritizes their political system, State or political view to a point of depriving any other citizen of their basic freedom.

Re: East Germany balloon escape

#184

Post by tirant »

immibis wrote: post #92
prmoustache wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A communist country has never existed and never will so we will never know. Communism is a lovely idea on paper but a complete utopia due to human nature. We are nearly all motherfuckers who if given the chance will try to obtain more power or more wealth than our peers in a group of any size. Thus you can't have all citizens of a given country agree on abandoning private ownership and sharing wealth, work and power…

Communism is the idea of "can't we all just get along?" which is obviously not something you can actually implement, but is easily used as a buzzword by evil regimes. Remember, H-tl-r called his regime "socialist", much the same way N-rth K-rea calls itself "democratic"

That’s not the idea of communism.

That’s actually the point of libertarianism, anarchism: do what you want, but you will only do well if you get along with the rest of the society by providing something helpful to them, as no one is forced to help you. And that’s why free market capitalism works. Even the most selfish individuals have needed to cooperate, work for others or open businesses with useful products for society in order to be able to accumulate wealth.

Re: East Germany balloon escape

#185

Post by mfld »

freakynit wrote: post #118

Was curious to know the calculations involved. Found them to be pretty simple. Vibe-coded an online calculator for future escapists: https://balloon-lift-calculator.pagey.site

You can compare them with the original calculations that can be found at https://www.ballonflucht.de/en/ballonrechner.html !

Re: East Germany balloon escape

#186

Post by fc417fc802 »

hopelite wrote: post #122
AniseAbyss wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

So turn back the clock to when Hildegard von Bingen was only one of many extremely powerful and influential abbesses that were polymaths and prolific artists and writers and educators of women in Europe? I’ve never understood this mentality that people who read and watched handmaids tale, caused some done kind of weird obsession built on a literal fiction story, a made up story… especially since the reality is not on…

> Have you ever heard of what the Ottoman Empire did?

Pertaining specifically to women? No, actually. Any chance you'd elaborate for the curious?

Re: East Germany balloon escape

#187

Post by petre »

Terr_ wrote: post #56
thenaturalist wrote: post #15

> East Germany immediately increased border security, closed all small airports close to the border, and ordered the planes kept farther inland.[6] Propane gas tanks became registered products, and large quantities of fabric suitable for balloon construction could no longer be purchased. Mail from East Germany to the two escaped families was prohibited.[12] > Erich Strelzyk learned of his brother's escape on the ZDF…

The greatest trick authoritarianism ever pulled [0] was convincing people it was competent, rational, or efficient. Putting young men into fresh uniforms to march in synchrony looks impressive, but in the background sycophancy rules while expertise is wasted, and people who could be improving harvests and preventing floods are slaving away in the "Office of Subversive Objects" trying to figure out the source of the g…

> Putting young men into fresh uniforms to march in synchrony

A security circus and a waste of time. Look at the Korean People's Army. Their main areas of expertise are marching in synchrony, digging trenches, construction and agriculture.

Re: East Germany balloon escape

#188

Post by petre »

mandevil wrote: post #34
drcode wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's such a crazy idea, even if a 5 year old tell a teacher about it or something, who's going to take the story seriously?

After they found the remains of the balloon from the first escape attempt, the Stasi put out a reward for information, I think everyone would take the story seriously at that point. It was why they decided they had to go through with the second attempt, because they were convinced the Stasi was going to catch them soon. But they had to buy the materials for that balloon after the Stasi had found the remains of their…

> But they had to buy the materials for that balloon after the Stasi had found the remains of their previous attempt

The repressive state apparatus was moving too slow. Maybe they hoped there won't be a second attempt after the first one failed, maybe it wasn't promptly reported to the appartchikhs and handled internally by the Stasi to avoid backlash.

Re: East Germany balloon escape

#189

Post by Roark66 »

thomassmith65 wrote: post #33
martin-t wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dustpile of history, sure, but gallows first. Bleeding out on the pavement is also acceptable. Way too often, connected ("powerful") people manage to escape proper punishment, sometimes in the name of a "peaceful transition of power".

A peaceful transition of power is nothing to sneer at. After a revolutionary change, they are rare.

Yes, here in Poland 36 years later people still seriously argue the country would be much better if we hanged the communists off lampposts (like it was done in few other places).

There ws a great cost to a "peaceful transition". The entire judiciary was basically full of extremely corrupt people, half of the political class. Even today when the old judges are almost all gone the horrible culture they had still corrupts many younger ones (although today it is more towards incompetence and indifference rather than corruption).

Would it be better to have half a million (or possibly entire million if you count inevitable victims on the other side) die to avoid it? We are still paying the price.

There is an argument that had we sorted the communist problem successfully back then we wouldn't have politicians later that let themselves be corrupted by Putin into funding his army. And perhaps there would never be an invasion of Ukraine.

Or if we done away with the peaceful transition, the communists in other neighbouring countries would attempt to hold on to power with everything they got. Who knows.

Re: East Germany balloon escape

#190

Post by tim333 »

AniseAbyss wrote: post #101
neilv wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “Are we here in the West??” Only this one question is asked by Peter Strelzyk and Günter Wetzel when they were in the early morning of the 16th. The "Handmaid's Tale" TV series has a great variation on that moment, which chokes me up every single time. (spoilers in video title) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oKZgXvpm0c

[flagged]

So native American tribes and no white people? That would make a change.
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