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ChatGPT Health is a marketplace, guess who is the product?

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Re: ChatGPT Health is a marketplace, guess who is the product?

#181

Post by vjvjvjvjghv »

datsci_est_2015 wrote: post #58
vjvjvjvjghv wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could also list plenty of horror stories where people went to medical professionals and got screwed over. There is this myth that people can go to doctors and get perfect attention and treatment. Reality is far from that

There’s the concept of “personal advocacy” when receiving healthcare. Unfortunately, you’ll only get the best outcomes if you continually seek out treatment with diligence and patience. But framing it as a “myth [of] perfect attention and treatment” sounds a bit like delegitimizing the entire healthcare industry in a way that makes me raise my eyebrow.

"But framing it as a “myth [of] perfect attention and treatment” sounds a bit like delegitimizing the entire healthcare industry in a way that makes me raise my eyebrow."

It doesn't delegitimize the whole industry. It points out real problems. A lot of patients are not given enough attention and don't get the correct treatment because the doctors didn't listen but rushed through things.

Re: ChatGPT Health is a marketplace, guess who is the product?

#182

Post by vjvjvjvjghv »

monooso wrote: post #62
lotsofpulp wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If an insurer is able to reduce (or recoup) costs from likelier risks, then the remaining insureds benefit from lower premiums. If the goal is providing subsidies (i.e. wealth transfers), then insurance is not the way to do it. That is the government’s role.

Not a US citizen, so a genuine question: do US health insurance companies have a track record of passing on such savings to consumers? That has not been my impression as an outside observer.

"passing on such savings to consumers"

Absolutely not. They inflate prices by 200% and then give you 20% "savings" back. The whole idea of a health insurance company as publicly traded corporation is totally insane. They are designed to extract maximum profit from wherever they can get. The is no incentive to save money for patients. Any savings go to shareholders.

Re: ChatGPT Health is a marketplace, guess who is the product?

#183

Post by bko »

Flatterer3544 wrote: post #80
simianwords wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain the exact way in which this is possible? It’s not legal to be denied jobs based on health. Not to deny insurance

And how would you know what they base their hiring upon? You would just get a generic automated response.. You would not be privy to their internal processes, and thusfar not be able to prove wrong doing. You would just have to hope for a new Snowden and that the found wrongdoings would actually be punished this time.

I don't get it, if you're medically unfit for a job, why would you want the job?

For instance, if your job is to be on your feet all day and you can barely stand, then that job is not for you. I have never met employers that are so flush in opportunities of candidates that they just randomly choose to exclude certain people.

And if it's insurance, there's a group rate. The difference only variable is what the employee chooses out of your selected plans (why make a plan available if you don't want people to pick that one?) and family size. It's illegal to discriminate of family size and that does add up to 10k extra on the employer side. But there are downsides to hiring young single people, so things may balance out.

Re: ChatGPT Health is a marketplace, guess who is the product?

#184

Post by datsci_est_2015 »

cm2012 wrote: post #147
datsci_est_2015 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s the concept of “personal advocacy” when receiving healthcare. Unfortunately, you’ll only get the best outcomes if you continually seek out treatment with diligence and patience. But framing it as a “myth [of] perfect attention and treatment” sounds a bit like delegitimizing the entire healthcare industry in a way that makes me raise my eyebrow.

Id say the Healthcare industry works hard but is probably working at like 20% of their possible productivity due to systemic issues.

How do you measure productivity? Profit per employee has never been higher, probably, as PE and other rent-seeking leeches (residency caps) have wrapped their fingers around the throat of the industry.

Positive outcomes per patient is probably also higher, due to research and technology advances. So many lives saved that would have been written off just a decade or two ago (e.g. spina bifida).

But I agree with you that there’s a hypothetical universe where seeking healthcare as an American doesn’t suck, I just don’t know if “productive” is the right word to describe it.

Re: ChatGPT Health is a marketplace, guess who is the product?

#186

Post by datsci_est_2015 »

vjvjvjvjghv wrote: post #181
datsci_est_2015 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s the concept of “personal advocacy” when receiving healthcare. Unfortunately, you’ll only get the best outcomes if you continually seek out treatment with diligence and patience. But framing it as a “myth [of] perfect attention and treatment” sounds a bit like delegitimizing the entire healthcare industry in a way that makes me raise my eyebrow.

"But framing it as a “myth [of] perfect attention and treatment” sounds a bit like delegitimizing the entire healthcare industry in a way that makes me raise my eyebrow." It doesn't delegitimize the whole industry. It points out real problems. A lot of patients are not given enough attention and don't get the correct treatment because the doctors didn't listen but rushed through things.

I was criticizing the rhetoric, not the sentiment. I’m skeptical of an argument when it flies too close to what I associate with irrationality and pseudoscience, especially considering what’s happened in medicine over the past 5 years.

The “myth [of] perfect attention and treatment” is an easy strawman for grifters and conmen to take advantage of: see RFK Jr.

Re: ChatGPT Health is a marketplace, guess who is the product?

#187

Post by datsci_est_2015 »

willparks wrote: post #159
datsci_est_2015 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s the concept of “personal advocacy” when receiving healthcare. Unfortunately, you’ll only get the best outcomes if you continually seek out treatment with diligence and patience. But framing it as a “myth [of] perfect attention and treatment” sounds a bit like delegitimizing the entire healthcare industry in a way that makes me raise my eyebrow.

Yes, there's been a tension between personal advocacy and the system for a long time. Doctors roll there eyes when a patient mentions they self diagnosed on WebMD. LLM's will accelerate self diagnosis immensely. This has the potential to help patients, but it is just a starting point. Of course, it should be verified from actual trained doctors.

Agreed, I described it elsewhere in this thread as K-shaped outcomes.

Re: ChatGPT Health is a marketplace, guess who is the product?

#188

Post by stevekemp »

gordian-mind wrote: post #95
trollbridge wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You can just choose not to use it", sure, until signing a consent form to use ChatGPT becomes mandatory for a doctor visit, just like all kinds of other technology (like having a cell phone to verify SMS, for example) is basically essential now to function in society.

Doctors in Europe already use LLMs to treat you.

That sounds like the kind of hallucinated statement you might expect from ChatGPT.

Which doctors, in which countries, are using LLMs to treat patients?

Re: ChatGPT Health is a marketplace, guess who is the product?

#189

Post by purrcat259 »

Flatterer3544 wrote: post #80
simianwords wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain the exact way in which this is possible? It’s not legal to be denied jobs based on health. Not to deny insurance

And how would you know what they base their hiring upon? You would just get a generic automated response.. You would not be privy to their internal processes, and thusfar not be able to prove wrong doing. You would just have to hope for a new Snowden and that the found wrongdoings would actually be punished this time.

> And how would you know what they base their hiring upon?

GDPR Request. Ah wait, regulation bad.

Re: ChatGPT Health is a marketplace, guess who is the product?

#190

Post by Workaccount2 »

duskdozer wrote: post #156
Workaccount2 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The obvious retort to this is: "If I focused on my health, ate clean and exercised daily, why should I also be subsidizing Billy "video-games-are-my-exercise" fatass's chronic health conditions?" This is why there is a hyperfixation on shifting blame away from (failing) individuals. The logic breaks when Billy has to admit he just hates exercising. And yes, before you comment, I know "maybe Billy has (condition outsi…

It also fails to take into account the fact that eating clean and exercising daily doesn't eliminate your risk of getting cancer at age 40 or having your car's brakes fail randomly.

Its dumb to create an insurance program using anecdotes.

The system can accommodate (and frankly is the ideal many people strive for) some health nut getting long drawn out cancer battle at 41. Its rare enough to be noise in the giant money payout pool.

Obesity and it's litany of health effects are not rare, and next to age, are a dominating signal drawing money from the pool.

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