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Chase to become new issuer of Apple Card

jpmorganchase.com

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Re: Chase to become new issuer of Apple Card

#181

Post by nutjob2 »

silisili wrote: post #96
pandemic_region wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That looks like a a crazy amount of cards. I carry exactly one debet card in my wallet (.eu) and use it for everything.

It is, but I typically only carry two - the 3% back and the grocery 6% back as the others are mainly online or automated. > I carry exactly one debet card in my wallet (.eu) and use it for everything Not sure about eu but in the US that's generally not advised, due to the semantics of how the cards work and legal fraud liabilities. Basically, if someone skims your debit card, they take your money and you have to some…

> Basically, if someone skims your debit card

I've had this happen to me and the bank in question asked me a couple of questions about where it happened (an ATM in a really dark location!) but quickly reversed the charges. Happened in London, so was OS to boot.

That was a few years ago don't know if its different now.

Re: Chase to become new issuer of Apple Card

#182

Post by reaperducer »

lxgr wrote: post #56
threatofrain wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The simplicity and nice app experience is what's really good, but you can easily get better terms in the industry if you pay just one hour of attention. I use the Apple Card because I love the customer UX, including the privacy from vendors part.

What privacy from vendors?

What privacy from vendors?

One of the big promises when the Apple Card launched is that, unlike most other cards, your purchase information isn't sold.

That's the big question mark from me with the Chase takeover. If that privacy goes away, I'll stop using the Apple Card.

Re: Chase to become new issuer of Apple Card

#183

Post by lxgr »

ifwinterco wrote: post #114
StopDisinfo910 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, fees are capped in the EU for exemple. Considering the impact on prices, cashback is basically reverse redistribution. It makes the situation worse for the poorest customers to give money to the banks and their richest customers.

Yep if you use a card in the US the company just takes 2c from your left pocket and puts it in your right pocket in a form that's more difficult to use. And if you don't use a card, the business takes 2c from your left pocket and keeps it. It's a great trick though, people really buy into the whole points/cashback thing and don't realise they're being paid with their own money

It's usually more than 3 cents out of your left pocket and 1.5-2 into your right one, even if you do everything right and never incur interest charges or fees.

> It's a great trick though, people really buy into the whole points/cashback thing and don't realise they're being paid with their own money

Even better, they become poorly-paid lobbyists for the entire scheme, since it successfully makes them feel like they're getting "luxury" items/services for free by "gaming the banks", when they're really just participating in a loyalty scheme exactly as designed.

Sure, it's possible to eke out a net cash profit here and there, but all in all, it's just a great counterexample to homo economicus.

Re: Chase to become new issuer of Apple Card

#184

Post by lxgr »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #137
ifwinterco wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep if you use a card in the US the company just takes 2c from your left pocket and puts it in your right pocket in a form that's more difficult to use. And if you don't use a card, the business takes 2c from your left pocket and keeps it. It's a great trick though, people really buy into the whole points/cashback thing and don't realise they're being paid with their own money

It’s not being paid with my own money. If I can get 2% cash back, then the situation is I either pay 98% of $x, or $x. Nowadays though, many sellers are offering at least 3% or higher discounts for not using credit card. My mobile network provider, home ISP, daycare and kids activities, insurance, taxes, healthcare, tradespeople, and even Target offers a 5% discount if you do not use a credit card. It’s basically onl…

> It’s not being paid with my own money. If I can get 2% cash back, then the situation is I either pay 98% of $x, or $x.

The counterfactual isn't getting or not getting 2% cash back, it's the merchant paying or not paying ~3% in fees, a part of which you get back from your issuing bank as a kickback to keep participating in and advocating for this scheme.

Of course this would require regulatory action. Absent that, the status quo represents the stable equilibrium.

Re: Chase to become new issuer of Apple Card

#185

Post by lxgr »

cj wrote: post #179
46493168 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but you can buy the same thing with cash for $97 Merchants rarely offer cash discounts in the US.

Except nearly every restaurant I frequent. Example menu below with cash and credit prices, credit prices being 4% more. I see this commonly. https://misslucyskitchen.com/menu

Even as somebody really disliking the current interchange fees in the US, 4% is a money grab on the merchant's side that I find hard to empathize with.

Even if the merchant pays the sticker price for card acceptance, it's usually just below 3%, unless international cards are involved. Add to that the fact that cash transactions in restaurants are often accounted for in "more tax efficient ways", and it feels even more icky.

Re: Chase to become new issuer of Apple Card

#186

Post by lxgr »

nozzlegear wrote: post #156
ifwinterco wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is if credit cards didn't exist, the $1 thing would cost 98c, so in that sense it's your money. Admittedly that is overstating it a bit because not everyone uses a rewards card. In reality the 2% cashback is 1% your own money being given back to you and 1% money from people paying in cash being transferred to you (normally regressively as someone else pointed out). If you get a discount for paying cash, then…

It's exceedingly rare to offer a cash discount in the US, I honestly don't think I've ever seen one in person.

I think the regulations allowing/prohibiting this vary heavily between states. For example, here are NY's rules: https://dos.ny.gov/system/files/documents/2024/04/2024-04-10...

Re: Chase to become new issuer of Apple Card

#187

Post by lxgr »

wolvoleo wrote: post #124
__alexs wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not even a particularly competitive cashback card in the UK. But perhaps you don't consider that a "more regulated country."

The UK is very similar to the US, very neoliberal. They have a little more consumer protection but not a lot. Here in Spain cards don't tend to provide any cashback, also they hurt your credit rating (in contrast with the US where they improve it and people end up shuffling cards). They're pretty unpopular here, most people just use debit cards. I prefer it too, if I don't need credit to buy something I don't want to…

The UK still has EU-equivalent interchange rate caps that they inherited form pre-Brexit times. The only thing that's changed so far is that transactions between the UK and EU can be charged higher interchange rates again.

Re: Chase to become new issuer of Apple Card

#188

Post by lxgr »

devilbunny wrote: post #154
wolvoleo wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK is very similar to the US, very neoliberal. They have a little more consumer protection but not a lot. Here in Spain cards don't tend to provide any cashback, also they hurt your credit rating (in contrast with the US where they improve it and people end up shuffling cards). They're pretty unpopular here, most people just use debit cards. I prefer it too, if I don't need credit to buy something I don't want to…

Credit cards are, oddly enough, one place in which the US has absolutely amazing consumer protection laws. Debit cards do not share these protections by law (though many banks offer some of them). So, if you move to the US, getting a credit card, even if you never intend to carry a balance, is a wise idea. - You cannot be held responsible for more than $50 of fraudulent charges - You are not required to report a card…

That's largely a myth these days.

> Debit cards do not share these protections by law

No, debit cards are covered by Regulation E, which also caps liability for fraudulent transactions, requires your issuer to provide provisional credit until the dispute case has been resolved etc.

The only practical difference in terms of the minimum fraud protections afforded by law is that you're out your own money instead of the bank's until you get that provisional credit, which can be a problem if it causes other transactions (utility bills etc.) on your checking account to bounce.

Where the two really differ significantly is for non-fraud disputes (goods/services not as expected etc.): Reg Z has explicit protections there; Reg E doesn't really talk about these.

But practically, it also doesn't really, because...

> though many banks offer some of them).

No, both Visa and Mastercard require require issuers to extend zero liability protections going beyond these regulations, so it's effectively all banks. (Capital One might be able to relax their own rules now that they own Discover, but I highly doubt they'd risk the consumer backlash for questionable benefit, since they can also just make merchants pay for card-not-present lost/stolen/card credential theft fraud and cover card-present fraud like everybody else in the US.)

Re: Chase to become new issuer of Apple Card

#189

Post by lotsofpulp »

lxgr wrote: post #186
nozzlegear wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's exceedingly rare to offer a cash discount in the US, I honestly don't think I've ever seen one in person.

I think the regulations allowing/prohibiting this vary heavily between states. For example, here are NY's rules: https://dos.ny.gov/system/files/documents/2024/04/2024-04-10...

NY’s laws are about the display of prices, but as of 2010, it is federal law that a merchant can always offer a lower cash or debit card price.

Re: Chase to become new issuer of Apple Card

#190

Post by hamburglar »

xyst wrote: post #169
hamburglar wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you want such a high credit limit? Are you dying to spend money you don’t have?

I didn’t "want" it. Chase just gave my auto increases over the years of having this card. Spending habits have yet to change. Also in US, credit utilization is a factor in credit scoring. Higher total credit means a lower utilization.

My advice is to ask yourself how important your credit limit is, and ask yourself why. And challenge the notion that a better credit score has any positive impact on your life. You have a whole chain of “truths” you take for granted: higher limit implies lower utilization. Lower utilization implies better credit score. Better credit score implies better mortgage rates. Better mortgage rates implies better something. What I’m trying to tell you is you can forget every single bit of that dependency chain without doing yourself any damage and you will actually feel better.

Sorry for the proselytizing. I know I’m doing it. But I think it’s a huge part of our consumerism addiction.

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