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Dell admits consumers don't care about AI PCs

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Re: Dell admits consumers don't care about AI PCs

#181
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only thing Apple is behind on in the AI race is LLMs. They've been vastly ahead of everyone else with things like text OCR, image element recognition / extraction, microphone noise suppression, etc. iPhones have had these features 2-5 years before Android did.

Kind of a big "only" though. Siri is still shit and it's been 15 years since initial release.

Amazing how its been 15 years and it still can't discern 15 from 50 when you talk to it.

Re: Dell admits consumers don't care about AI PCs

#182

As someone who spent a year writing an SDK specifically for AI PCs, it always felt like a solution in search of a problem. Like watching dancers in bunny suits sell CPUs, if the consumer doesn't know the pain point you're fixing, they won't buy your product.

Tbh it's been the same in Windows PCs since forever. Like MMX in the Pentium 1 days - was marketed as basically essential for anything "multimedia" but provided somewhat between no and minimal speedup (v little software was compiled for it). It's quite similar with Apple's neural engine, which afiak is used very little for LLMs, even for coreML. I know I don't think I ever saw it being used in asitop. And I'm sure wh…

I have to disagree with you about MMX. It's possible a lot of software didn't target it explicitly but on Windows MMX was very widely used as it was integrated into DirectX, ffmpeg, GDI, the initial MP3 libraries (l3codeca which was used by Winamp and other popular MP3 players) and the popular DIVX video codec.

Re: Dell admits consumers don't care about AI PCs

#183
post #139

WTF is an "AI PC"? Most of "AI" happens on the internet, in big datacenters, your PC has nothing to do with that. It will more likely confuse users who don't understand why they need a special PC when any PC can access chatgpt.com. Now, for some who actually want to do AI locally, they are not going to look for "AI PCs". They are going to look for specific hardware, lots of RAM, big GPUs, etc... And it is not a very…

AI PC in MS parlance is a computer with 40+ TOPS NPU built-in. Yes, they are intended for local AI applications.

Re: Dell admits consumers don't care about AI PCs

#184
post #10

> It's not that Dell doesn't care about AI or AI PCs anymore, it's just that over the past year or so it's come to realise that the consumer doesn't. I wish every consumer product leader would figure this out.

People will want what LLMs can do they just don't want "AI". I think having it pervade products in a much more subtle way is the future though. For example, if you close a youtube browser tab with a comment half written it will pop up an `alert("You will lose your comment if you close this window")`. It does this if the comment is a 2 page essay or "asdfasdf". Ideally the alert would only happen if the comment seemed…

> Ideally the alert would only happen if the comment seemed important but it would readily discard short or nonsensical input

No, ideally I would be able to predict and understand how my UI behaves, and train muscle memory.

If closing a tab would mean losing valuable data, the ideal UI would allow me to undo it, not try to guess if I cared.

Re: Dell admits consumers don't care about AI PCs

#185
post #180
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem isn't so much the five seconds, it is the muscle memory. You become accustomed to blindly hitting "Yes" every time you've accidentally typed something into the text box, and then that time when you actually put a lot of effort into something... Boom. Its gone. I have been bitten before. Something like the parent described would be a huge improvement. Granted, it seems the even better UX is to save what th…

> You become accustomed to blindly hitting "Yes" every time you've accidentally typed something into the text box, and then that time when you actually put a lot of effort into something... Boom. Its gone. Wouldn't you just hit undo? Yeah, it's a bit obnoxious that Chrome for example uses cmd-shift-T to undo in this case instead of the application-wide undo stack, but I feel like the focus for improving software resi…

> Wouldn't you just hit undo?

Because:

1. Undo is usually treated as an application-level concern, meaning that once the application has exited there is no specific undo, as it is normally though of, function available. The 'desktop environment' integration necessary for this isn't commonly found.

2. Even if the application is still running, it only helps if the browser has implemented it. You mention Chrome has it, which is good, but Chrome is pretty lousy about just about everything else, so... Pick your poison, I guess.

3. This was already mentioned as the better user experience anyway, albeit left open-ended for designers, so it is not exactly clear what you are trying to add. Did you randomly stop reading in the middle?

Re: Dell admits consumers don't care about AI PCs

#186
post #56
post #27

They nailed it. Consumers don't care about AI, they care about functionality they can use, and care less if it uses AI or not. It's on the OS and apps to figure out the AI part. This is why even though people think Apple is far behind in AI, they are doing it at their own pace. The immediate hardware sales for them did not get impacted by lack of flashy AI announcements. They will slowly get there but they have time.…

The only thing Apple is behind on in the AI race is LLMs. They've been vastly ahead of everyone else with things like text OCR, image element recognition / extraction, microphone noise suppression, etc. iPhones have had these features 2-5 years before Android did.

Apple’s AI powered image editor (like removing something from the background) is near unusable. Samsung’s is near magic, Google’s seems great. So there’s a big gap here.

Re: Dell admits consumers don't care about AI PCs

#187
post #10

> It's not that Dell doesn't care about AI or AI PCs anymore, it's just that over the past year or so it's come to realise that the consumer doesn't. I wish every consumer product leader would figure this out.

People will want what LLMs can do they just don't want "AI". I think having it pervade products in a much more subtle way is the future though. For example, if you close a youtube browser tab with a comment half written it will pop up an `alert("You will lose your comment if you close this window")`. It does this if the comment is a 2 page essay or "asdfasdf". Ideally the alert would only happen if the comment seemed…

At my current work much of our software stack is based on GOFAI techniques. Except no one calls them AI anymore, they call it a "rules engine". Rules engines, like LLMs, used to be sold standalone and promoted as miracle workers in and of themselves. We called them "expert systems" then; this term has largely faded from use.

This AI summer is really kind of a replay of the last AI summer. In a recent story about expert systems seen here on Hackernews, there was even a description of Gary Kildall from The Computer Chronicles expressing skepticism about AI that parallels modern-day AI skepticism. LLMs and CNNs will, as you describe, settle into certain applications where they'll be profoundly useful, become embedded in other software as techniques rather than an application in and of themselves... and then we won't call them AI. Winter is coming.

Re: Dell admits consumers don't care about AI PCs

#188
post #105
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that there are virtually no off-the-shelf local AI applications. So they're trying to sell us expensive hardware with no software that takes advantage of it.

Yes it's a surprising marketing angle. What are they expecting people to run on these machines? Do they expect your average joe to pop into the terminal and boot up ollama? Anyone technical enough to jump into local AI usage can probably see through the hardware fluff, and will just get whatever laptop has the right amount of VRAM. They are just hoping to catch the trend chasers out, selling them hardware they won't…

To be fair Ollama does have a GUI.

Re: Dell admits consumers don't care about AI PCs

#189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ideally the alert would only happen if the comment seemed important but it would readily discard short or nonsensical input. That doesn't sound ideal at all. And in fact highlights what's wrong with AI product development nowadays. AI as a tool is wildly popular. Almost everyone in the world uses ChatGPT or knows someone who does. Here's the thing about tools - you use them in a predictable way and they give you a…

But... A lot of stuff you rely on now was probably once distracting and unpredictable. There are a ton of subtle UX behaviors a modern computer is doing that you don't notice, but if they all disappeared and you had to use windows 95 for a week you would miss. That is more what I am advocating for, subtle background UX improvements based on an LLMs ability to interpret a users intent. We had limited abilities to look…

I remember seeing one of those "kids use old technology" videos, where kids are confused by rotary phones and the like.

One of the episodes had them using Windows 98. As I recall, the reaction was more or less "this is pretty ok, actually". A few WTFs about dialup modems and such, but I don't recall complaints about the UI.

Re: Dell admits consumers don't care about AI PCs

#190

I don't know how many others here have a CoPilot+ PC but the NPU on it is basically useless. There isn't any meaningful feature I get by having that NPU. They are far too limited to ever do any meaningful local LLM inference, image processing or generation. It handles stuff like video chat background blurring, but users' PC's have been doing that for years now without an NPU.

The stacks for consumer NPUs are absolutely cursed, this does not surprise me.

They (Dell) promised a lot in their marketing, but we're like several years into the whole Copilot PC thing and you still can barely, if at all, use sane stacks with laptop NPUs.

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