I don’t understand, why would this debut only in a motorcycle? Wouldn’t there be a much bigger market and investor interest in putting it in a car initially?
Owners are the same
Donut Lab’s all-solid-state battery delivers 400 Wh/kg of energy density
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Re: Donut Lab’s all-solid-state battery delivers 400 Wh/kg of energy density
#182Re: Donut Lab’s all-solid-state battery delivers 400 Wh/kg of energy density
#183This is so out there, checks every box imaginable or they’ve done some incredible copy writing. So then, elephant in the room, where is the catch? It’s it the cost? They haven’t left much else - - made from geopolitically abundant resources - unlikely to catch fire - fully charges in 5 mins - does not lose capacity over cycles - retains 99% capacity at -30C and 100C What is today, April 1st??
For me the reason I might trust it to some degree is that they're Finns (and Finns don't usually hype things or bullshit), and it's not just one firm. They've got the motorcycle firm (Verge) in the video, they've got the some other guy, so if these guys just went along with bullshit claims they're kind of ruining the image of their company for no reason.
I don't understand how it can be done though.
Re: Donut Lab’s all-solid-state battery delivers 400 Wh/kg of energy density
#184Earlier quoted context omitted.
The Fordson tractor of 1917 appears to use the engine block and transmission case as basic structural members of the tractor. Not a fast vehicle, but tough.
Eh, the monocoque was circa early 1960s and the Otto cycle was circa 1860s, but the Model T was 1900s.
Not old enough?
How about a steam engine with the front axle bolted to the boiler?
A steam boiler is subject to considerable stresses already and adding dynamic forces to the shell can't be a good idea?
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/42/Kemna_ro...
Re: Donut Lab’s all-solid-state battery delivers 400 Wh/kg of energy density
#185I was extremely skeptical, until I saw that they're shipping in an actual consumer motorcycle.
https://www.vergemotorcycles.com/ts-pro/
The webpage does mention the solid-state battery, and the starting price is 30'000$, so... holy shit?
Re: Donut Lab’s all-solid-state battery delivers 400 Wh/kg of energy density
#186I was extremely skeptical, until I saw that they're shipping in an actual consumer motorcycle. https://www.vergemotorcycles.com/ts-pro/ The webpage does mention the solid-state battery, and the starting price is 30'000$, so... holy shit?
I was thinking “this is vapor or extremely expensive”
. But maybe it’s somehow both.
Re: Donut Lab’s all-solid-state battery delivers 400 Wh/kg of energy density
#187So solid state battery tech is very likely on-schedule for mass production over the next 4 years. There really isn't much time left for the haters to post stories attempting to factually dismantle and dismiss EVs before EVs pass the 51% adoption curve in 2030.
Even as things currently stand, some folks just have a bone to pick with EVs. Even if future models have an 800mi range, can charge to 100% in 5 minutes, and have useful lifetimes as long or longer than ICE counterparts, some will figure out some reason to get angry about them.
I emphasize, somewhat, with them for some complaints. The thing I love about our EV is the greatly reduced maintenance. No oil changes, no transmission fluid changes, greatly less parts means less that can fail, etc. That's awesome, but it also means people in industries supporting those will see their industries reduce or go away. This is good for us overall, but is painful for those in the midst.
That's why there is a big backlash against EVs, and I get it. Long term progress means short/medium term pain for some people. Think about all the stress facing software developers with AI progress.
Some empathy and plan to handle these changes would go a long way.
Re: Donut Lab’s all-solid-state battery delivers 400 Wh/kg of energy density
#188Sounds too good to be true. Seriously, if the CEO had any proof, he wouldn't need to hang out on CES. He would be showered with billions of $$$ and investors would fly in from all over the world. Instead he is selling motor cycles? Hard to believe. Why not have at least two different top universities having tested them?At least some insights into their production to verify the claims? And the motorcycle has a 33kWh b…
Apparently Nordic Nano is a spin out from the University of Tampere, and the CEO of Donut Labs seems to have his own money. I happened to spend three weeks in Tampere by accident 15 years ago, and I have no reason to believe that people there don’t know what they are doing. It is where Nokia was originally founded, and where the first GSM phone call was made.
Re: Donut Lab’s all-solid-state battery delivers 400 Wh/kg of energy density
#189Earlier quoted context omitted.
Cost, volume, and weight are still significant constraints. Existing batteries obviously can make for some good cars, but they could be better. It doesn’t have to be more range or faster charging, it could be the same range and charging speed but 25% lighter and cheaper.
Cost is no longer a concern as today LFP batteries and electric motor price is cheaper than an ice engine in China. Though my main point is that there is a lack of infrastructure to charge at full speed current batteries so higher capacity faster charging solid state batteries are mostly pointless when you cant charge them fast or to full capacity.
It's still a major expense. Reducing costs is good.
Higher capacity and faster charging doesn't have to actually mean more capacity and faster charging. It can mean smaller and lighter for the same capacity and charging speed. If you have a technology with 10x the energy density, you can build a car that goes 3000 miles on a charge, or you can build a car that goes 300 miles on a charge and has a battery only 10% the size/weight. (In practice a even a bit less than that, since the reduced size/weight will reduce how much energy you use per mile.)
Re: Donut Lab’s all-solid-state battery delivers 400 Wh/kg of energy density
#190Meanwhile, CATL's Naxtra sodium-ion batteries while only 175 Wh/kg are far safer.
Lithium-ion NMC/Lipo and even LFP are gradually becoming like whale oil lamps and wax candles, inherently unsafe tech to be replaced gradually by safer and more durable tech.