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Stardew Valley developer made a $125k donation to the FOSS C# framework MonoGame

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Re: Stardew Valley developer made a $125k donation to the FOSS C# framework MonoGame

#181

Post by tormeh »

sneak wrote: post #172
Sajarin wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this comes off a bit too strong (as well as the replies to this to be fair) The example isn't quite accurate. If a friend bought you lunch, the social norm of reciprocity would incline you towards buying them lunch in the future (i.e part of your paycheck) Free open source software is a public good. While there is no obligation to give back, giving back helps that public good become more useful to other peopl…

In the lunch example, reciprocation would be releasing additional software under free software licenses, not payments. There should be zero social pressure, as gifts do not convey obligation. It was the software author’s explicit choice when licensing and publishing the software to make clear that payment is not expected.

Gifts do confer obligations. This is widely agreed upon in human society. If you ignore this there will be consequences, just no legal ones.

Re: Stardew Valley developer made a $125k donation to the FOSS C# framework MonoGame

#182

Post by gmueckl »

mikepurvis wrote: post #169
gmueckl wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a somewhat naive view of engines in modern game development. Full-featured engines allow every department to dive in head first in parallel. The first gameplay elements often get programmed before the first pieces of content arrive. Scenes can be blocked out and drafted immwdiately at the start of the project. Complex animations with states and blend trees can be created amd tested independently of the gamepl…

Right, yes. I think all I meant is that in earlier generations you could do modeling/sprites and concepting from the beginning, but there was a hard line in terms of how much code had to exist before the whole thing started to look or feel like much. Thinking here especially of the Doom / Quake / HL1 era where they were basically building the level design tools in parallel with the game. Whereas nowadays you can have…

You don't have to reinvent all these systems, but in my experience, you still have to code a lot to wire these very generic building blocks up in a good way that fits your specific use cases.

Re: Stardew Valley developer made a $125k donation to the FOSS C# framework MonoGame

#183

Post by kwanbix »

sneak wrote: post #174
kwanbix wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is the moral thing to do.

I disagree. The moral thing to do would be to respect the stated wishes of the author of the software, who made clear when they published it that no payments of any kind are expected. If I gave you a gift and you tried to give me money, I would be offended. I’m not saying free software publishers wouldn’t accept donations - just that publishing free software is giving a gift to the world, and there is NO moral obliga…

What can I say. That you can not see it speaks volumes about your moral compas.

Re: Stardew Valley developer made a $125k donation to the FOSS C# framework MonoGame

#184

Post by nothrabannosir »

sneak wrote: post #171
MildlySerious wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There really is no prize for being technically correct on this one. Someone built this and is letting you have it. For free. There is no legal obligation or law of the universe here, sure, but if you're in the top 1% of benefactors of this pro bono work, you have the opportunity to do some good and make sure that others, like you, get the chance to benefit from this free work in the future. There is a pretty straight…

There is no moral obligation, either - that’s my point. They chose to give it away for free. It’s the author’s explicit decision that there is no obligation placed on recipients. Giving a fake gift that comes with unspoken strings attached (and “keeping score” in your head) is the passive-aggressive, immoral act. If reciprocity is expected, it is definitionally not a gift. Releasing software under a free software lic…

The license only says what you MUST and MUST NOT do. The comment you’re replying to talked about what they SHOULD do. These are different concepts and they are codified differently by humans: the former in licenses, the latter socially. You’re experiencing that process right now.

Re: Stardew Valley developer made a $125k donation to the FOSS C# framework MonoGame

#185

Post by [deleted] »

willis936 wrote: post #12
mpeg wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stardew is probably one of the most (if not the most) popular game ever made with MonoGame AAA studios don't really use MonoGame.

Their point wasn't about MonoGame. Do AAA studios really not use any open source tools?

[deleted]

Re: Stardew Valley developer made a $125k donation to the FOSS C# framework MonoGame

#186

Post by seabrookmx »

unpopularopp wrote: post #89

I'm sorry but why C#? Isn't the big tech (Microsoft) in this case is a very big downside? Why not LÖVE (Lua) for example? https://love2d.org/ There is also libGDX (Java) but not sure Oracle is any better than Microsoft. https://libgdx.com/

C# is very popular in game dev.

Unity, Godot, and the XNA successors (Monogame, FNA etc) all use it.

It's higher level and more productive for the average programmer than C++, but still has static typing and much more mature libraries than Lua and other dedicated game scripting languages (of which there used to be many).

A lot of game development is Windows centric, and many C++ game devs prefer Visual Studio (the full fat one, not VS Code). I'm guessing MS is seen more favourably in gaming circles than it is in web dev.

Windows and the Xbox are both tier 1 platform targets for game devs as well.

Re: Stardew Valley developer made a $125k donation to the FOSS C# framework MonoGame

#187

Post by orthoxerox »

unpopularopp wrote: post #89

I'm sorry but why C#? Isn't the big tech (Microsoft) in this case is a very big downside? Why not LÖVE (Lua) for example? https://love2d.org/ There is also libGDX (Java) but not sure Oracle is any better than Microsoft. https://libgdx.com/

Because it was Microsoft that developed XNA a long time ago. It was XNA that inspired all the other frameworks you mentioned, and when Microsoft invariably abandoned it there were enough people using C# to make games to create demand for an open-source reimplementation.

Re: Stardew Valley developer made a $125k donation to the FOSS C# framework MonoGame

#188

Post by tredre3 »

unpopularopp wrote: post #89

I'm sorry but why C#? Isn't the big tech (Microsoft) in this case is a very big downside? Why not LÖVE (Lua) for example? https://love2d.org/ There is also libGDX (Java) but not sure Oracle is any better than Microsoft. https://libgdx.com/

> I'm sorry but why C#?

Because Stardew Valley is written in it. Probably half of modern games are written in C#, too (Unity). It's not exactly an odd choice.

> Isn't the big tech (Microsoft) in this case is a very big downside?

No, a language being backed by big tech is a plus as long as the stack is fully open-source (which .net now is).

> Why not LÖVE (Lua) for example?

Because Stardew Valley uses MonoGame, not LOVE.

> There is also libGDX (Java) but not sure Oracle is any better than Microsoft.

Other than Minecraft, can you name one successful game written in Java?

Re: Stardew Valley developer made a $125k donation to the FOSS C# framework MonoGame

#189

Post by oblio »

nothrabannosir wrote: post #184
sneak wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no moral obligation, either - that’s my point. They chose to give it away for free. It’s the author’s explicit decision that there is no obligation placed on recipients. Giving a fake gift that comes with unspoken strings attached (and “keeping score” in your head) is the passive-aggressive, immoral act. If reciprocity is expected, it is definitionally not a gift. Releasing software under a free software lic…

The license only says what you MUST and MUST NOT do. The comment you’re replying to talked about what they SHOULD do. These are different concepts and they are codified differently by humans: the former in licenses, the latter socially. You’re experiencing that process right now.

"You are being counseled at this very moment" :-))

Re: Stardew Valley developer made a $125k donation to the FOSS C# framework MonoGame

#190

Post by Mobius01 »

tempest_ wrote: post #132
yakattak wrote: post #97

Stardew Valley is one of a few indie games that seems to be known outside the usual “gaming” circle. I have a few friends who’ve never engaged with any games but absolutely loved Stardew Valley. It’s the pinnacle of cozy, I suppose. ConcernedApe has done something special with game development to achieve that. I always look to him as an example as I take to game dev as a hobby. This is yet another way I want to take…

I love Stardew and played a bunch when it was first released. He really had perfect timing with its release. The original developers and the rights holders for harvest moon had so badly fumbled for so long with bad releases or only in Japan releases etc. Someone was bound to show up in that space since there was a clear demand for that type of game. It also helps that he aped (heh) harvest moon from the super nintend…

Definitely a perfect timing situation, though with substantial risk. Considering the time the game was in development, an alternative could have showed up in the market.

However, I believe Stardew Valley’s appeal wasn’t simply of fulfilling a void in the market. It is great because there is genuine passion for the subject in the execution, and the content in the game is truly compelling for a wide audience. An amazing story.

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