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NYC Mayoral Inauguration bans Raspberry Pi and Flipper Zero alongside explosives

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Re: NYC Mayoral Inauguration bans Raspberry Pi and Flipper Zero alongside explosives

#181

Post by DoctorOetker »

edgineer wrote: post #179
crazygringo wrote: post #103

It's not like they're banning them across all of NYC... it's just security at the inauguration event. "Large bags" are banned too. > When a policy bans specific devices rather than behaviors or capabilities, it creates ambiguity for people on the ground. To the contrary, how the heck is someone working security at the entrance supposed to check for a device's "behaviors or capabilities"? This is a quick visual inspec…

>There's no legitimate purpose in bringing any of those to a high-profile political event. I've carried a flipper zero with me to use as a copy of my key when I misplaced my original.

"There is no legitimate purpose in misplacing one's original keys."

Re: NYC Mayoral Inauguration bans Raspberry Pi and Flipper Zero alongside explosives

#182

Post by greggoB »

ssl-3 wrote: post #140
crazygringo wrote: post #103

It's not like they're banning them across all of NYC... it's just security at the inauguration event. "Large bags" are banned too. > When a policy bans specific devices rather than behaviors or capabilities, it creates ambiguity for people on the ground. To the contrary, how the heck is someone working security at the entrance supposed to check for a device's "behaviors or capabilities"? This is a quick visual inspec…

There's no legitimate purpose in bringing crayons and a coloring book, or a box of paperclips, either. We should probably see to it that nobody brings any of those things in, as well.

And the winner of the "could you be more obtuse award", ladies and gentlemen

Re: NYC Mayoral Inauguration bans Raspberry Pi and Flipper Zero alongside explosives

#183

Post by cyberax »

tptacek wrote: post #171
cyberax wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, crime decreases tend to stick. Chicago started with similar conditions as NYC (30 murders per 100000 in 1991), but they didn't have no-nonsense mayors like Bloomberg and Rudy. So its murder rate now is still 5 times that of NYC. Broken window policing and stop-and-frisk absolutely worked. Stop-and-frisk was found to be unconstitutional, but it also was highly effective.

CPD generally does whatever NYPD does. The difference is that New York isn't Chicago. Different geography, different forces at work. Peter Moskos wrote a whole book about how NYPD turned things around in the 1990s, and "stop and frisk" and "broken windows", whatever Malcolm Gladwell wants you to believe, don't feature prominently in it.

Chicago had tried Chicago Alternative Policing Strategy (CAPS) in 90-s it was so famous that even I heard about it during my lessons on urban planning. In Russia.

And it was not entirely unsuccessful, but definitely much less effective than policing in NYC.

I read multiple articles from both conservative and progressive sources about the drop of crime in NYC. The evidence is decidedly mixed. "Broken windows" policies probably helped a lot during the 90-s but lost their efficacy by the early 2000-s. Stop-and-frisk probably reduced the rate of serious crimes, mostly through incidental arrests but undermined some of the community trust. It also was unconstitutional.

Re: NYC Mayoral Inauguration bans Raspberry Pi and Flipper Zero alongside explosives

#184

Post by tptacek »

cyberax wrote: post #183
tptacek wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CPD generally does whatever NYPD does. The difference is that New York isn't Chicago. Different geography, different forces at work. Peter Moskos wrote a whole book about how NYPD turned things around in the 1990s, and "stop and frisk" and "broken windows", whatever Malcolm Gladwell wants you to believe, don't feature prominently in it.

Chicago had tried Chicago Alternative Policing Strategy (CAPS) in 90-s it was so famous that even I heard about it during my lessons on urban planning. In Russia. And it was not entirely unsuccessful, but definitely much less effective than policing in NYC. I read multiple articles from both conservative and progressive sources about the drop of crime in NYC. The evidence is decidedly mixed. "Broken windows" policies…

Again, I think, read the Moskos book. It's good, it's new, and it's about exactly this topic.

Re: NYC Mayoral Inauguration bans Raspberry Pi and Flipper Zero alongside explosives

#185

Post by oliwarner »

I understand the weirdness of picking out a couple of examples, but I'd expect they'll confiscate and destroy any DIY SOC/microprocessor encased in a bundle of wires or aerials. An exhaustive list is tedious, a class would undoubtedly catch random consumer electronics.

They don't mention cookware or DIY either but try entering with a pressure cooker and a bag of nails. They won't pause to look for explosives.

For the sake of one day in one place, it's not worth getting angry about.

Re: NYC Mayoral Inauguration bans Raspberry Pi and Flipper Zero alongside explosives

#187

Post by cyberax »

tptacek wrote: post #184
cyberax wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chicago had tried Chicago Alternative Policing Strategy (CAPS) in 90-s it was so famous that even I heard about it during my lessons on urban planning. In Russia. And it was not entirely unsuccessful, but definitely much less effective than policing in NYC. I read multiple articles from both conservative and progressive sources about the drop of crime in NYC. The evidence is decidedly mixed. "Broken windows" policies…

Again, I think, read the Moskos book. It's good, it's new, and it's about exactly this topic.

Well, I bought it. It's a jumbled mess.

I obviously haven't read it completely yet, but I read the parts that mention "Broken Windows". So far they seem to basically affirm everything I said:

> Now Bratton had some success in Transit, and well-publicized success, because he decided to stop people from jumping over the turnstiles. It was rampant. They wound up locking up some guy who had like $10,000 and a gun and couldn't be bothered to pay the dollar subway fare. The idea was, if I keep these guys out of the system, crime will go down. And crime went down in Transit, which is why Bratton got Boston and why he got back here. It was like, "This guy might be on to something."

> Operation Alternative

> But you can use the Broken Windows theory. Stopping a guy for drinking beer gave you a chance to run him for a warrant. Is he wanted for a violent crime? Stopping a guy for pissing in the street gave you a chance to issue a summons. Which meant if he couldn't produce ID you could bring him into the station, run his prints, and then find out he was wanted for one of last week's shootings.

Re: NYC Mayoral Inauguration bans Raspberry Pi and Flipper Zero alongside explosives

#188

Post by Zenst »

crazygringo wrote: post #103

It's not like they're banning them across all of NYC... it's just security at the inauguration event. "Large bags" are banned too. > When a policy bans specific devices rather than behaviors or capabilities, it creates ambiguity for people on the ground. To the contrary, how the heck is someone working security at the entrance supposed to check for a device's "behaviors or capabilities"? This is a quick visual inspec…

Next it will be smart phones which can do many of the things these devices can do when rooted the right model.

Not hard to make a walking stick that can do wireless shenanigans, that gets overlooked by all.

Oh well, be mobile free zoning soon at this rate.

Re: NYC Mayoral Inauguration bans Raspberry Pi and Flipper Zero alongside explosives

#189

Post by kasey_junk »

cyberax wrote: post #124
afavour wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crime rates reduced during the time stop and frisk was implemented. But when it was removed, crime rates remained low: https://www.brennancenter.org/media/5670/download Strongly suggests correlation but not causation.

Yes, crime decreases tend to stick. Chicago started with similar conditions as NYC (30 murders per 100000 in 1991), but they didn't have no-nonsense mayors like Bloomberg and Rudy. So its murder rate now is still 5 times that of NYC. Broken window policing and stop-and-frisk absolutely worked. Stop-and-frisk was found to be unconstitutional, but it also was highly effective.

Chicago was run by Richard Daly 2 for 20 years during the Guliani era. I’m not sure what a no-nonsense mayor is but Daly resolved a dispute over an airport by having the runway jack hammered over night in the middle of negotiations.

During the 80s CPD ran a torture warehouse. They are currently operating under court direction for their mass use of pre textual traffic stops.

I’m not buying your “just so” story about mayors or hard nosed policing being the difference.

Re: NYC Mayoral Inauguration bans Raspberry Pi and Flipper Zero alongside explosives

#190

Post by hnlmorg »

dmitrygr wrote: post #137
hnlmorg wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re not banned by the government. They’re just not allowed at the NYC Mayors inauguration party.

Not allowed = “banned” By Government security apparatus = “by government”

Except you can freely use them anywhere else in NYC.

People aren’t complaining that umbrellas and beach balls are also on that list. They’re just reacting to the headline without reading the article.

Which is why I make the distinction between “not allowed at an event” and “banned by the government”.

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