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Fahrplan – 39C3

fahrplan.events.ccc.de

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Re: Fahrplan – 39C3

#181

Post by sunaookami »

meibo wrote: post #96
monerozcash wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, at least you can reasonably argue that the political content has been headed downhill since the more aggressive days of the past. Do we see wikileaks or the likes anymore? Not really. Without direct action it's just nerds reading out their blog posts about politics, which couldn't be less interesting.

There has been plenty of direct action in recent years, but I can't really think of any on a global scale. Lots of smaller things on a German level, like journalists reporting about infiltrating a Great Replacement conference hosted by the second biggest political party here.

>like journalists reporting about infiltrating a Great Replacement conference hosted by the second biggest political party here.

And making stuff up that was never talked about there to start a political movement to get that party banned? Yeah nice democracy and journalism there.

Re: Fahrplan – 39C3

#182

Post by immibis »

rapnie wrote: post #177
moltopoco wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems that no modern comment section is complete without the complaint "too much politics", then followed by "but everything is political". Some talks do not even try to draw a line from politics to computers, and I think that is what people feel unhappy about. https://fahrplan.events.ccc.de/congress/2025/fahrplan/event/... https://fahrplan.events.ccc.de/congress/2025/fahrplan/event/... https://fahrplan.events.ccc…

Unrelated to this conference I've often heard the "everything is political" argument, and mostly with a passive-aggressive "or else.." (you're up for a political fight) undertone. I once enquired on very mundane things in life, and yes "those too are political act". Well, if everything is bleakly political in that sense, we may make it universal, just call it Newspeak.

Definition of politics: whenever two agents have conflicting goals and a resolution is reached (peacefully or otherwise). Or more succinctly, multi-agent dynamics. Yes, almost everything is politics, and this is not diluting the word, any more than saying that almost everything is made of atoms is diluting the meaning of the word "atoms".

(Parent comment was edited to remove the part about diluting meaning)

Re: Fahrplan – 39C3

#183

Post by immibis »

holowoodman wrote: post #176
saubeidl wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem has been the continuous purposeful rightward shift of the overton window as part of a wider strategy by the far right. You see it in action here, where the politics of the CCC, despite not having changed since their founding are suddenly decried as "very far left". You see the far-right decrying our democratically elected government as "dictatorship", a classic Putinist propaganda move. Don't let the righ…

> You see it in action here, where the politics of the CCC, despite not having changed since their founding are suddenly decried as "very far left". No, things have changed in CCC as well. Back in the day, free speech (in the US definition) and a firm opposition to any censorship were consensus on CCC. Nowadays, censorship is totally OK if it targets the right. And any kind of remotely right-wing opinion is declared…

do you think the old-school CCC would be happy with a guy walking onto the stage and yelling the N word over and over, or would they kick him out? Because that's the quality of "speech" they now support "censoring".

Re: Fahrplan – 39C3

#184

Post by holowoodman »

saubeidl wrote: post #178
holowoodman wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You see it in action here, where the politics of the CCC, despite not having changed since their founding are suddenly decried as "very far left". No, things have changed in CCC as well. Back in the day, free speech (in the US definition) and a firm opposition to any censorship were consensus on CCC. Nowadays, censorship is totally OK if it targets the right. And any kind of remotely right-wing opinion is declared…

Why is what right wingers do speech that should be protected, but not what the "Zentrum fuer politische Schönheit" does? There's a certain hypocrisy in all right wing demands for free speech. They always mean freedom of their speech, not of people they disagree with.

There is quite a difference between "speech" and what ZfpS does. Their actions are often criminal, and not in the sense of "political crimes" but actually criminal acts that have nothing to do with speech or opinions. They have doxed people and called for violence against them, they have exhumed dead children and paraded around their corpses, stolen things, stuff like that.

Re: Fahrplan – 39C3

#185

Post by brendoelfrendo »

saubeidl wrote: post #170
toxik wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could use exactly the same rhetoric to make the opposite argument.

Sure, but you would be denying reality. Look at the political reality in Europe and the US. How many countries are led by the far right? What about the far left?

> How many countries are led by the far right? What about the far left?

Since you asked the question, I assume you have an answer, and I'm curious to hear it. I imagine it will reveal more about your personal politics than any observable political reality.

Re: Fahrplan – 39C3

#186

Post by immibis »

dim13 wrote: post #159
shmeeed wrote: post #14

Me and some friends used to attend the CCC some 15-20 years ago. Back then, we just showed up at the entrance on the first day and bought our tickets there. This year we were toying with the idea of going for a revival. But man, did we underestimate how much this event has grown... Tickets in the second presale round were gone within 1-2 seconds. We didn't stand a chance. I feel like we failed the entry exam tbh. Any…

It is no longer the same. It went from somewhat exclusive dining experience to full blown nuclear junk food chain vibe. I've stopped attending it about 10 years ago. I rather prefer to watch some few interesting topics online, and skip all the wanna-be political junk.

You choose to ignore politics, but politics doesn't choose to ignore you. Ostriching doesn't seem productive.

Re: Fahrplan – 39C3

#187

Post by immibis »

belter wrote: post #138
tmsbrg wrote: post #135

Some talks which sound really brilliant. I love [0] exploiting a memory leak for years before it's fixed. Also [1] I'm really curious about the custom crypto used in Chinese apps. Oh and curious about the found [2] GPG vulnerabilities. I think some of the politics ones are actually also very interesting. Looking forward to the streams. [0] https://fahrplan.events.ccc.de/congress/2025/fahrplan/event/... [1] https://fa…

The first one is indeed fascinating...almost deserving of its HN post :-) It has been submitted six times in the last 10 months, with a grand total of 1 comment...I though this site had Hacker in the title... https://hn.algolia.com/?q=https%3A%2F%2Fgfw.report%2Fpublica...

Common misconception. HN uses "hacker" as in "the people who do the work that makes Y Combinator rich" rather than "someone who plays with technology". HN hackers are contrasted with CEOs and so on - people whose job is not the on-the-ground work.

Re: Fahrplan – 39C3

#188

Post by holowoodman »

immibis wrote: post #183
holowoodman wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You see it in action here, where the politics of the CCC, despite not having changed since their founding are suddenly decried as "very far left". No, things have changed in CCC as well. Back in the day, free speech (in the US definition) and a firm opposition to any censorship were consensus on CCC. Nowadays, censorship is totally OK if it targets the right. And any kind of remotely right-wing opinion is declared…

do you think the old-school CCC would be happy with a guy walking onto the stage and yelling the N word over and over, or would they kick him out? Because that's the quality of "speech" they now support "censoring".

Being (un)happy about something is totally different from creating and promoting an oppressive censorship apparatus, criminal laws and police actions against that something.

Imho: You don't have to like that person yelling that stuff. You don't have to like what they are yelling. But you have to accept that it has to be their legal right to yell that stuff. Because otherwise, any opinion will one day be a criminal thing to say, just takes one election...

Re: Fahrplan – 39C3

#189

Post by immibis »

sunaookami wrote: post #181
meibo wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There has been plenty of direct action in recent years, but I can't really think of any on a global scale. Lots of smaller things on a German level, like journalists reporting about infiltrating a Great Replacement conference hosted by the second biggest political party here.

>like journalists reporting about infiltrating a Great Replacement conference hosted by the second biggest political party here. And making stuff up that was never talked about there to start a political movement to get that party banned? Yeah nice democracy and journalism there.

Were you at this conference?
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