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Valve is running Apple's playbook in reverse

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Re: Valve is running Apple's playbook in reverse

#181

Post by vablings »

ee64a4a wrote: post #126
glenstein wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair point on the vendors - surely they hoped to make $$ from it. But I think you're underestimating the significance of standing up Proton and the critical experience working through bugs and getting experience with hardware, and gradually growing the inventory of compatible games. Simply put, there's no Steam Deck without the Steam Machine, which says everything about the value of the Steam Machine.

> But I think your underestimating the significance of standing up Proton I don't think I'm underestimating it at all. Proton and SteamOS were huge, they were extremely well-timed, and they've been a boon for everyone involved (except M$ shareholders, I guess). However, none of that necessitated whatever the Steam Box release was. It's not like it moved a significant number of units and that's why Valve invested in P…

I think there is something to be said for companies putting their money where their mouth is. Getting behind Gaming on Linux with a hardware launch is pretty substantial and Valve have been explicit since 2013 that they think it's the way forward.

They also continue to have first class support for BOTH windows and Linux without forcing it down anyone's throat which is not the strategy for literally every tangent related market. There are no super annoying layers to this strategy Valve could have done a number of things to force users to use Linux such as. - Linux game exclusives and Linux discounts. - Preventing the steam machine from running on a windows machine by dropping certain hardware - Making windows users second class by not releasing the latest updates and features. - Making other hardware incompatible with windows e.g. Valve Index, Steam Controller etc

Re: Valve is running Apple's playbook in reverse

#182

Post by vablings »

rhesa wrote: post #179
k4rli wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

gamer!==gamer. These are your own choices. For me Assetto Corsa + other racing games + CS2 work perfectly. And with sway/i3, unlike in Windows, I can throw the game around in whichever way I wish. No laggy alt-tab or random crashes that my Windows user friends often have.

Simracing is the only reason my gaming rig runs windows. I never even thought my hardware would work on linux (especially my motion hardware). And stuff like crewchief and race telemetry. How do you deal with all that on linux?

Some random guy had the same problem as you a couple months ago and already released a nice software package that you can get from AUR/apt/dnf etc.

And if it doesn't exist then maybe you should go and make it!

Re: Valve is running Apple's playbook in reverse

#183

Post by vablings »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #49
modeless wrote: post #4

Valve's hardware products will be successful but remain niche. And that's ok. They are unwilling to pursue business models that require locking down hardware in order to subsidize it with software purchases, and I love that about them. As a result their hardware will always be more expensive. They will not outcompete Meta in VR or Sony/MS/Nintendo in consoles because price is king for the mass market. Valve's hardwar…

In 2025 none of Sony, Microsoft or Nintendo sell their consoles at a loss. They're sold for very slim margins, which is what I assume Valve will do with the Steam machine. I expect the Steam Machine to be price competitive. ish. Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo likely have contracts locking down RAM prices whereas Valve will have to negotiate theirs based on current prices.

If that's the case, then why are console games so damn expensive? I was shocked to see how much the latest AAA title costs on disk/store

Console users now

- Don't get a price subsidized console

- Have to pay an online membership

- Pay the premium for any games released on the platform

How could anyone ever justify getting triple taxed!

Re: Valve is running Apple's playbook in reverse

#184

Post by vablings »

RunSet wrote: post #94

> Steam came in 2003, created for easy management of updates for their games over the Internet (what today would be called a “proprietary launcher”). I call it that today and I also called it one in 2003, when it suddenly demanded to be installed and kept running to continue playing Half-Life (what today would be called "vendor lock-in").

Its even better now!

Launch a steam game to open another game launcher platform that you then create an account for and play on that game. A launcher launcher!

Re: Valve is running Apple's playbook in reverse

#185

Post by vablings »

CuriouslyC wrote: post #57
dartharva wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are Google and Apple in its crosshairs (article's framing notwithstanding)? From what I see, Microsoft is the only one they have been gunning for, and even that behemoth is looking to get out of the way. Their Xbox platform has practically imploded, and they have specifically designed Windows 11 to be less of a PC operating system and more of an ads platform and a cross-selling channel for their AI/cloud offering…

Valve is clearly using games as a wedge, the Steam Machine is (and will continue to be) pushed as a capable general purpose computing device, and as the Linux desktop experience improves they will lean harder into that angle, until they're selling sexy general purpose devices with a user experience comparable to Apple's. This includes phones, though the timeline for that will lag a few years.

Outside of speculation do you have any source or evidence that valve plans to expand the hardware ecosystem outside of gaming?

Re: Valve is running Apple's playbook in reverse

#186

Post by littlecranky67 »

viktorcode wrote: post #153
littlecranky67 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that even an argument - the PS5 has had proper discs. The issue is, the disc content is 1GB file that requires a 50GB download.

In modern game development practice you will have to download patches anyway, so whatever there's on disk is irrelevant. Hardware has nothing to do with that.

Exactly that was my point. Consoles used to have a seamless "put in disc and lets go" experience, but they lost it and now are on par with PCs on that UX.

Re: Valve is running Apple's playbook in reverse

#187

Post by bryanlarsen »

vablings wrote: post #183
bryanlarsen wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 2025 none of Sony, Microsoft or Nintendo sell their consoles at a loss. They're sold for very slim margins, which is what I assume Valve will do with the Steam machine. I expect the Steam Machine to be price competitive. ish. Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo likely have contracts locking down RAM prices whereas Valve will have to negotiate theirs based on current prices.

If that's the case, then why are console games so damn expensive? I was shocked to see how much the latest AAA title costs on disk/store Console users now - Don't get a price subsidized console - Have to pay an online membership - Pay the premium for any games released on the platform How could anyone ever justify getting triple taxed!

It's not price subsidized, but the margins are very thin on the hardware. So maybe it's not a triple tax. But it's still a massive tax.

Valve is insanely profitable with only a single tax on generally much lower base prices. Nintendo is in a whole different league.

Re: Valve is running Apple's playbook in reverse

#188

Post by everforward »

chii wrote: post #132
bryanlarsen wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Steam you download from steampowered.com can be an open platform at the same time that the Steam that comes preinstalled on the Steam Machine is a closed platform. Seems unlikely because we believe Valve has integrity. But it's possible they have less integrity than we think, and they pursue this strategy to make some of those games with kernel-level anti-cheat available on the Steam Machine.

> Steam you download from steampowered.com can be an open platform at the same time that the Steam that comes preinstalled on the Steam Machine is a closed platform. i dont think that's possible unless steam choose to go the route of what apple does with iOS and macOS - both essentially are "different" OS's. But if that's the case, then games would have to be written "twice" (or have engine support directly from engi…

Not my space, but I think this would be a cryptography kind of thing. Burn a key into read-only hardware, lock the bootloader, require the kernel and drivers to be signed with a key the burnt-in key can validate. Potentially extend it to all executables on the device.

It’s closed in the sense that you can’t install whatever you want, not in the sense that Valve is going to make their own framework devs have to use.

Re: Valve is running Apple's playbook in reverse

#189

Post by everforward »

lunar_rover wrote: post #128
deadbabe wrote: post #46

Valve should really make something like a Steamphone. No iOS, no Android, just raw SteamOS with gaming and privacy focus, and fully customizable by users if they want. Make it look really sleek and cool, and dockable.

I don't see this happening in the foreseeable future. Making competitive phones is even harder than making a desktop, and they aren't investing in Linux desktop itself either, just the components they need. SteamOS works by not running a desktop in its default mode.

The threat profile feels scarily different too. SteamOS doesn’t feel like something I’d install a banking app on.

I don’t think they want to wander further into malware arms races. They don’t seem to really want to maintain their anti-cheat currently, it’s notoriously poor. I love Valve but I’m not sure I’d trust them with a platform I log into my bank with.

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