Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

finance.yahoo.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 331 posts

Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#181

Post by tlb »

MangoToupe wrote: post #140
nostrademons wrote: post #119

I thought this was common knowledge. DeepSeek’s Wikipedia entry says that they trained all their models on Nvidia chips procured before the U.S. embargo to China on them. It wouldn’t surprise me if they continued acquiring them through, well, less than legal means. I also read somewhere (not Wikipedia) that they trained on ChatGPT, Claude, and Gemini queries, basically feeding in the output of competitor’s LLMs as tr…

> less than legal means. This is an absurd concept when it comes to international trade. Even intellectual property is mostly meaningless outside a state. Of course people will evade sanctions; what is the us going to do, invade singapore or malaysia?

Just because something is hard to enforce doesn't mean it's absurd.

Embargoes aren't impossible to enforce against the foreign importer. If a foreign entity is found to have placed orders with false documents, they can be sanctioned, which can be enforced against any of their international operations. It makes it hard for them to do future business in global markets. I would not recommend violating US sanctions no matter where you are.

Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#182

Post by platevoltage »

tehjoker wrote: post #101

hope so! why should computing technology be restricted based on country? this isn't a nuclear missile (and china already has those, with a much saner strategic policy than us too (we have no policy against preemptive strikes!))

I mean, it makes sense in the USA's head. They want to win the AI race. What they are doing is making it so China has no choice but to develop an alternative to Nvidia chips.

Eventually China will make their own shovels to dig up the gold. I'm not sure what this would do to Nvidia, but I'm sure we will find out.

Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#183

Post by ignoramous »

voidnap wrote: post #158
ComputerGuru wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s bandits all the way down, so adding a little smuggling to that doesn’t surprise me. Implying it’s *morally* wrong for a Chinese company to bypass US sanctions is hilarious. You really say that with a straight face when even the president admits this is only protectionism?

Yes. The bans are export controls. They are not banned in china. They are just banned from export in the US. Using them in china is legal in china.

> Yes. The bans are export controls.

These export controls increasingly look like "tax".

  The White House said the US government would take a 25 percent cut of the chip’s sales, similar to a deal with AMD and Nvidia earlier this year that allowed them to sell lower-powered AI chips to China while paying the US government 15 percent of the proceeds.
> Using them in China is legal in China.

Technically, yes. The CCP, though, wants to incentivize Chinese firms to use domestically-manufactured chips.

https://www.silicon.co.uk/e-innovation/artificial-intelligen... / https://archive.vn/B2pah

Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#184

Post by rkagerer »

ffsm8 wrote: post #150
rkagerer wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google and Meta are probably the only two companies that have a right to license their training data For the sake of someone unfamiliar... Why is that? Did they pay teams of monkeys to generate their own, novel training data? Or gain explicit, opt-in permission from users who entrust them with their files/content?

The explicit opt in is only necessary under gdpr, which is a lot of data, but not a majority.

only necessary under gdpr

It's not that simple. The EU may be the only ones to have codified that, but there's centuries of case law in other jurisdictions dealing with ownership, that once the matter hits litigation might turn out to say something other than these tech companies would like.

Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#186

Post by hearsathought »

echelon wrote: post #176
hearsathought wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's the moral imperative of every country to optimize for its citizens' economic prospects. "Moral imperative"? No country was ever created out of a moral imperative. None. Also, no country was ever created to optimize for its citizens' economic prospects. Every country was created by the elites for the benefits of the elites.

> We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is…

> The intent is there.

The declaration of independence was written by one of the wealthiest slave owners in the country. "Moral imperative" was certainly not behind the american revolution. The economic interests of the elites were. There are no saints in politics. Just interests - mostly of the elites.

Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#187

Post by nish__ »

platevoltage wrote: post #169
qoez wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Give me 1 reason why the USA, the (for now) leader of "the west", is morally superior to China?

China doesn't allow people to freely leave the country. How is that ok?

Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#188

Post by whatevermom3 »

nish__ wrote: post #185
platevoltage wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Give me 1 reason why the USA, the (for now) leader of "the west", is morally superior to China?

[flagged]

I see Chinese citizens traveling abroad every day. Doesn't look like they cannot travel. Freedom of what exactly? Are you really free in America when you have to toil away 12 hours per day to make ends meet? Honestly funny to see people falling for American propaganda.

Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#189

Post by KumaBear »

nostrademons wrote: post #119

I thought this was common knowledge. DeepSeek’s Wikipedia entry says that they trained all their models on Nvidia chips procured before the U.S. embargo to China on them. It wouldn’t surprise me if they continued acquiring them through, well, less than legal means. I also read somewhere (not Wikipedia) that they trained on ChatGPT, Claude, and Gemini queries, basically feeding in the output of competitor’s LLMs as tr…

Lets take the weapons embargos placed on Israel by our allies. In the NDAA must pass bill we set funds aside to procure those weapons and sell them to Israel. We don't really care about these things we have selective enforcement.

Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#190

Post by nish__ »

xadhominemx wrote: post #105
int32_64 wrote: post #58

What's strange in this discussion of chips and export bans is there's been zero discussion of cloud access, I guess networked computers are difficult for America's gerontocrats to understand. I've rented H100s no problem on American servers and there's no KYC or anything, they let anybody do it.

You should really seek to actually understand an issue before you comment so arrogantly. US authorities are ok with Chinese companies accessing GPUs in overseas DCs because those DCs will still be subject any US export controls. Right now, we don’t really care if Chinese companies are building tier-2 LLMs on US gear. If China invades Taiwan or frontier models approach AGI, we will shut down those Malaysian and Thai d…

Traditional social norms are reversed online because there is no threat of immediate violence. Arrogance gets attention. Politeness gets ignored. Don't be so harsh. It's just how this generation communicates.
Post reply on HN