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Leaving the U.S. for the Netherlands

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Re: Leaving the U.S. for the Netherlands

#181

Post by tastyface »

mvkel wrote: post #48

As an immigrant to the US, I've often viewed the fervent wish to depart (among natural born citizens) to be the ultimate form of self-entitlement. That you'd give up so easily when your voice, presence, and vote, matters most. It's being tested right now, and leaving is the only way to fail. Also, why do you think any other country would -love- to have you?

It’s perfectly clear now that half the voters in the US are enthusiastic about fascism and white supremacy. Frankly, it makes me physically ill. Pockets of the country are great, but the nation as a whole is going to become another Russia in my lifetime and it breaks my heart. Why subject myself to this torture? The time to change our fate was 2016 and 2024 and we failed miserably.

Re: Leaving the U.S. for the Netherlands

#182

Post by tastyface »

briandw wrote: post #18

And go where? Seriously I don’t know of another country that isn’t on the same authoritarian track, if not further along. If anyone has done a serious study and come up with a country that still has strong judicial independence, due process, lack of censorship and respect for private property, Id love to know

Did you even bother reading the article?

Also, with the sole exception of Hungary, no place in Europe is remotely on the same authoritarian track as the US. And the democratic systems and institutions are much more robust, too. More consensus, less first-pass-the-post bullshit.

Re: Leaving the U.S. for the Netherlands

#183

Post by tastyface »

rib3ye wrote: post #59

The US would be better off every American did attempt to expatriate. In my own experience, I quickly saw and stared to miss the many strengths of our way of life. For the curious about which country it was, see my username.

In contrast, every time I travel extensively outside the US, I wonder what the fuck we’re even doing with our unfathomable wealth. Crumbling infrastructure, horrendous healthcare, mass homelessness and human misery, all while our oligarchs sit atop their piles of gold and tell us to work harder.

Re: Leaving the U.S. for the Netherlands

#184

Post by Gud »

mothballed wrote: post #71
ohm wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you give some examples?

Guns and (relatively) freedom of speech (yes I'm aware it comes with asterisk) are the two big ones. If I left the USA it would probably be to a place with weak governance on these points in practice rather than on paper. Only Yemen, Iraq, Somaliland, parts of Pakistan, parts of Rojava and maybe KRG (Kurdistan), Idlib, and Palestine are only places I know of with looser (to me better) gun laws than America and out of…

In Switzerland you can have guns, so it’s just factually wrong.

Re: Leaving the U.S. for the Netherlands

#185

Post by mothballed »

Gud wrote: post #184
mothballed wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guns and (relatively) freedom of speech (yes I'm aware it comes with asterisk) are the two big ones. If I left the USA it would probably be to a place with weak governance on these points in practice rather than on paper. Only Yemen, Iraq, Somaliland, parts of Pakistan, parts of Rojava and maybe KRG (Kurdistan), Idlib, and Palestine are only places I know of with looser (to me better) gun laws than America and out of…

In Switzerland you can have guns, so it’s just factually wrong.

Sure but bearing arms is a lot more restrictive in Switzerland. I'm not claiming you can't have guns in other countries, hell you can have a gun even in places like Japan in a limited capacity with the right permits.

Where I live in Arizona you can 3d print a handgun, load it, stick it down your pants, and walk around with it around town all day doing basically whatever (as long as you don't go to a school, jail, or courthouse basically). All with zero background checks, licenses/permits, or even needing to carry an ID. Can I do that in Switzerland? I doubt they would let you do that even with a long rifle, unless you are going to/from some sort of approved activity.

The only euro-controlled place I know where you can basically do that is Greenland, as long as it is a bolt action rifle. Greenland is actually looser than USA in that regard, you can buy a bolt rifle like a hammer from a hardware store in Greenland with zero checks or license (IIRC, even as a foreigner) whereas in USA you could only do that if you bought it privately or made it yourself.

Re: Leaving the U.S. for the Netherlands

#186

Post by bulbar »

Bender wrote: post #118
titanomachy wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think relatively few people choose their home based on “where can I have the most guns and least oversight on banking”. But I suspect that the people who care about these things care about them a LOT.

For me it was a factor to some degree. I am not a firearm collector. For me it was knowing that I was moving from a state that hates firearms and wants to justify law enforcement budgets by punishing anyone that defends themselves to a state that not only has very few restrictions on firearms and ammo but also actively and legally supports people defending themselves and their neighbors. That was just one of many fac…

I know nobody who owns a firearm and I am pretty sure close to nobody of them know somebody themselves.

Same goes for being a victim of a criminal offense.

Against what/who are your defending with those firearms in the US?

Re: Leaving the U.S. for the Netherlands

#187

Post by mothballed »

bulbar wrote: post #186
Bender wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me it was a factor to some degree. I am not a firearm collector. For me it was knowing that I was moving from a state that hates firearms and wants to justify law enforcement budgets by punishing anyone that defends themselves to a state that not only has very few restrictions on firearms and ammo but also actively and legally supports people defending themselves and their neighbors. That was just one of many fac…

I know nobody who owns a firearm and I am pretty sure close to nobody of them know somebody themselves. Same goes for being a victim of a criminal offense. Against what/who are your defending with those firearms in the US?

Who would tell you they have them if you are in a country where it is illegal? For instance the fgc-9[] commonly seized in parts of Europe was invented by a German in Germany (ethnic Kurd though).

No one knew who he was until he was arrested and for the most part until he was dead. His european friends would be saying the same thing as you, "don't know anyone with guns..."

Lots of guns in Europe by people who aren't supposed to have them. Either because they are criminals thus don't care about gun laws, or if they are 'good' people then they should know not to pull out a gun unless their other option is to be dead -- at which point 'fuck the law' and better to be in a jail cell than dead.

[] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FGC-9

Re: Leaving the U.S. for the Netherlands

#188

Post by ponector »

swat535 wrote: post #111
busterarm wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But finding housing is brutal.

Genuinely asking, are there any country that doesn't have a housing crisis right now? From my understanding, it's everywhere in Western nations

Is housing really unaffordable in US? How many years average Joe needs to work to buy a 1bd apartment in the big city, let's say 500sq ft? Price in annual net salary is much lower in USA than in big EU cities.

Re: Leaving the U.S. for the Netherlands

#189

Post by ponector »

uyzstvqs wrote: post #80
zbiggistardust wrote: post #23

There are much better places in the world to move to than the Netherlands

You can expect 25%-50% the salary, with a cost-of-living similar to the SF Bay Area throughout the entire country. Relatively little jobs, a lot of legacy tech stacks, and these days a lot of stuff is outsourced to American SaaS platforms. High taxes, but they cover next to nothing for the average person. Go to Eastern Europe, Switzerland, Scandinavia, maybe Italy or Greece.

>> Go to Eastern Europe, maybe Italy or Greece.

Where you can expect salary to be a half of salary in Netherlands and even less returns from your taxes, which are anyway >30% Good choice!

Re: Leaving the U.S. for the Netherlands

#190

Post by sifar »

moribvndvs wrote: post #124
mvkel wrote: post #48

As an immigrant to the US, I've often viewed the fervent wish to depart (among natural born citizens) to be the ultimate form of self-entitlement. That you'd give up so easily when your voice, presence, and vote, matters most. It's being tested right now, and leaving is the only way to fail. Also, why do you think any other country would -love- to have you?

> That you'd give up so easily when your voice, presence, and vote, matters most. There have been concerted efforts over the last couple decades (arguably much longer) to erode these things; gerrymandering, voter roll purges, eliminating/restricting polling locations and absentee voting, corporations and wealthy individuals have basically unlimited spend on electioneering and lobbying giving them a disproportionate v…

And one thinks these things haven't been happening in other countries where one wishes to move?

What the GP is probably trying to say is that what the US is going through at present has been the default state for most of the developing world. And these things have been eroding in many of the western democracies for the past decade. Those that have been able to preserve it may not be more attractive in culture, geography or economic terms.

Hence the entitlement part where I think the people in the US took for granted what they have/had. We always realize the true value of something when we don't have it.

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