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MinIO is now in maintenance-mode

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Re: MinIO is now in maintenance-mode

#181

Post by topspin »

digikata wrote: post #58
dardeaup wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've done some preliminary testing with garage and I was pleasantly surprised. It worked as expected and didn't run into any gotchas.

Garage is really good for core S3, the only thing I ran into was it didn't support object tagging. It could be considered maybe a more esoteric corner of the S3 api, but minio does support it. Especially if you're just mapping for a test api, object tagging is most likely an unneeded feature anyway. It's a "Misc" endpoint in the Garage docs here: https://garagehq.deuxfleurs.fr/documentation/reference-manua...

"didn't support object tagging"

Thanks for pointing that out.

Re: MinIO is now in maintenance-mode

#182

Post by ahepp »

phoronixrly wrote: post #131
liviux wrote: post #126

Fork in Linux foundation incoming. Minio will revert in 1-2 years, but too late, community will move on and never return, reputation lost forever

Just watch them harass fork users with proprietary stacks as they used to: https://github.com/minio/minio/issues/13308#issuecomment-929... https://github.com/minio/minio/discussions/13571#discussionc...

Wait, what's the consensus on this? Are they saying that using object storage over a standard network API which they didn't even create, makes your application a derivative work of the object store?

Or just that the users would need to make minio sources, including modifications, freely available?

I guess that's kind of the big question inherent to the AGPL?

Re: MinIO is now in maintenance-mode

#183

Post by dardeaup »

Joel_Mckay wrote: post #128
PunchyHamster wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I saw nothing above what Apache Spark+Hadoop with _consistent_ object stores already offers on Amazon (S3), Google Cloud (GCS), and or Microsoft (Azure Storage, ADLS Gen2) it was very simple to setup, and even if you just leased a bunch of servers off say OVH, far FAR cheaper to run your own than paying any of the big cloud providers. It also had pretty low requirements, ceph can do all that but setup is more compl…

MinIO still makes no sense, as Ceph is fundamentally already RADOS at its core (fully compatible with S3 API.) For a proper Ceph setup, even the 45drives budget configuration is still not "hobby" grade. I will have to dive into the MinIO manual at some point, as the value proposition still seems like a mystery. Cheers =3

"Ceph is fundamentally already RADOS at its core (fully compatible with S3 API.)"

Yes, Ceph is RADOS at its core. However, RADOS != S3. Ceph provides an S3 compatible backend with the RADOS Gateway (RGW).

Re: MinIO is now in maintenance-mode

#184

Post by positisop »

frellus wrote: post #30

https://aistore.nvidia.com

github.com/NVIDIA/aistore

At the 1 billion valuation from the previous round, achieving a successful exit requires a company with deep pockets. Right now, Nvidia is probably a suitable buyer for MinIO, which might explain all the recent movements from them. Dell, Broadcom, NetApp, etc, are not going to buy them.

Re: MinIO is now in maintenance-mode

#185

Post by zokier »

jerf wrote: post #152
tlarkworthy wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

? Its like GET /object, PUT /object. To me its the most obvious mapping of HTTP to immutable object key value storage you could imagine. It is bad that the control plane responses can be malformed XML (e.g keys are not escaped right if you put XML control characters in object paths) but that can be forgiven as an oversight. Its not perfect but I don't think its a strange API at all.

That may be what S3 is like , but what the S3 API is is this: https://pkg.go.dev/github.com/aws/aws-sdk-go-v2/service/s3 My browser prints that out to 413 pages with a naive print preview. You can squeeze it to 350 pretty reasonably with a bit of scaling before it starts getting to awfully small type on the page. Yes, there's a simple API with simple capabilities struggling to get out there, but pointing that out is…

> That may be what S3 is like, but what the S3 API is is this: https://pkg.go.dev/github.com/aws/aws-sdk-go-v2/service/s3

> My browser prints that out to 413 pages with a naive print preview. You can squeeze it to 350 pretty reasonably with a bit of scaling before it starts getting to awfully small type on the page.

idk why you link to Go SDK docs when you can link to the actual API reference documentation: https://docs.aws.amazon.com/AmazonS3/latest/API/API_Operatio... and its PDF version: https://docs.aws.amazon.com/pdfs/AmazonS3/latest/API/s3-api.... (just 3874 pages)

Re: MinIO is now in maintenance-mode

#186

Post by Joel_Mckay »

dardeaup wrote: post #183
Joel_Mckay wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MinIO still makes no sense, as Ceph is fundamentally already RADOS at its core (fully compatible with S3 API.) For a proper Ceph setup, even the 45drives budget configuration is still not "hobby" grade. I will have to dive into the MinIO manual at some point, as the value proposition still seems like a mystery. Cheers =3

"Ceph is fundamentally already RADOS at its core (fully compatible with S3 API.)" Yes, Ceph is RADOS at its core. However, RADOS != S3. Ceph provides an S3 compatible backend with the RADOS Gateway (RGW).

My point was even 45drives virtualization of Ceph host roles to squeeze the entire setup into a single box was not a "hobby" grade project.

I don't understand yet exactly what MinIO would add on top of that to make it relevant at any scale. I'll peruse the manual on the weekend, because their main site was not helpful. Thanks for trying though ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: MinIO is now in maintenance-mode

#187

Post by NewsaHackO »

lima wrote: post #140
nikeee wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't contribute to MinIO, but if they accepted external contributions without making them sign a CLA, they cannot change the license without asking every external contributor for consent to the license change. As it is AGPL, they still have to provide the source code somewhere. IANAL, of course

They required a "Community Contribution License" in each PR description, which licensed each contribution under Apache 2 as an inbound license. Meanwhile, MinIO's own contributions and the distribution itself (outbound license) were AGPL licensed. It's effectively a CLA, just a bit weaker, since they're still bound by the terms of Apache 2 vs. a full license assignment like most CLAs.

People underestimate the amount of fakeness a lot of these "open-core/source" orgs have. I guarantee from day one of starting the MinIO project, they had eyes on future commercialization, and of course made contributors sign away their rights knowing full well they are going to go closed source.

Re: MinIO is now in maintenance-mode

#188

Post by KaiserPro »

tlarkworthy wrote: post #45
candiddevmike wrote: post #38

It sucks that S3 somehow became the defacto object storage interface, the API is terrible IMO. Too many headers, too many unknowns with support. WebDAV isn't any better, but I feel like we missed an opportunity here for a standardized interface.

? Its like GET /object, PUT /object. To me its the most obvious mapping of HTTP to immutable object key value storage you could imagine. It is bad that the control plane responses can be malformed XML (e.g keys are not escaped right if you put XML control characters in object paths) but that can be forgiven as an oversight. Its not perfect but I don't think its a strange API at all.

HTTP isn't really a great back plane for object storage.

Re: MinIO is now in maintenance-mode

#189

Post by yahooguntu »

lima wrote: post #148
gethly wrote: post #132

There is https://github.com/seaweedfs/seaweedfs I haver not used it but will be likely a good minio alternative for people who want to run a server and don't use minio just as s3 client.

Is it stable now? Last time I checked, the amount of correctness bugs being fixed in the Git history wasn't very confidence-inspiring.

We're in the process of moving to it, and it does seem to have a lot of small bugfixes flying around, but the maintainer is EXTREMELY responsive. I think we'll just end up doing a bit of testing before upgrading to newer versions.

For our use case (3 nodes, 61TB of NVMe) it seems like the best option out of what I looked at (GarageFS, JuiceFS, Ceph). If we had 5+ nodes I'd probably have gone with Ceph though.

Re: MinIO is now in maintenance-mode

#190

Post by stormking »

runiq wrote: post #178
eproxus wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that page is horrendous and looks super sketchy. It looks like a very professional fishing attempt to get unsuspecting developers to download malware. They have a lot of obviously fake quotes from non-existent people at positions that don’t even mention what company it is. The pictures are misgendered and even contain pictures of kids. Feels like the whole page is AI generated.

They have a CLA that assigns copyright to them: https://github.com/rustfs/rustfs/blob/5b0a3a07645364d998e3f5... So, arguably worse than MinIO.

How would you run a project like this? People come and go. People do a one-time contribution and then you never hear from them again. People work on a project for years and then just go silent. Honestly, credit where credit is due, but how is a project like this supposed to manage this?
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