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AI has a deep understanding of how this code works

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Re: AI has a deep understanding of how this code works

#181

Post by collingreen »

mnming wrote: post #168
benterix wrote: post #62

Did these Ocaml maintainers undergo some special course for dealing with difficult people? They show enormous amounts of maturity and patience. I'd just give the offender Torvalds' treatment and block them from the repo, case closed.

I wonder if it's the best outcome? The contributor doesn't seem to have a bad intention, could his energy be redirected more constructively? E.g. encouraging him to split up the PR, make a design proposal etc.

Is (or should that be) the goal, responsibility, or even purview of the maintainers of this project?

Re: AI has a deep understanding of how this code works

#182

Post by owenversteeg »

I've seen a lot of AI-generated PRs but I think this one is actually a very unique and interesting case. Most of these are written by novices, don't work, are for less-technical projects, and there isn't any real conversation or changing opinions. This was completely different; it was complex and actually worked, the poster Joel Reymont has 30 years of software experience and not exactly on simple bullshit either (from what I can tell, he was writing device drivers 20 years ago and had an HN account "wagerlabs" since 2008.) There was a real discussion here (the OCaml maintainers had an impressive amount of patience!) and the poster eventually laid out his side coherently with a human-written comment and changed his mind about contributing to OSS with AI.

Don't get me wrong, I still think these AI-generated PRs are a total waste of time for everyone involved and a scourge on OSS maintainers. As it stands today I haven't seen any serious project that's able to use them productively. This PR was still 13k largely incomprehensible lines with several glaring errors. And yet this specific PR is still not like the others!

Re: AI has a deep understanding of how this code works

#183

Post by collingreen »

laterium wrote: post #111
pluc wrote: post #68

To all the AI apologists here I'd like to submit a simple scenario to you and hear your answer: you use AI to create a keynote speech on a topic you needed to use AI to write. At the end of your speech, people ask you questions about the contents of your speech. What do you say? This is the same.

What have politicians been doing forever?

And are we fans of that approach or does it feel disingenuous and, in politicians cases, dangerously corrupt?

Re: AI has a deep understanding of how this code works

#184

Post by collingreen »

incognito124 wrote: post #147
philipwhiuk wrote: post #125

> P.S. Pushing my ambitions onto unsuspecting open-source communities was a mistake I won’t repeat. The best playground is always your own project. In fairness, the author claims to have learned - quoting from his portfolio page So... 1 down, 6.9 billion to go.

Hate to break it to you, but there are already over 8B people on the planet

But how many can afford Claude and chatgpt subs?

Re: AI has a deep understanding of how this code works

#186

Post by collingreen »

franktankbank wrote: post #97

Everybody is dunking on this guy like hes some dopey protagonist in a movie, but you guys watched the movie. I think the interaction is pretty damn interesting. At least I see this interaction is "better" than the similar bug reports that have been discussed here (but I can't put my finger on why). If someone wants to contribute to ocaml I think they should read this issue to get a sense of how they work. Excellent c…

It's not that they won't do big changes. They clearly and politely said big changes should go through a design conversation with the maintainers first. This is extremely reasonable even if we assume maintaining code is free (it very much is not free!). It's amazing to be how nice they were AND this isn't the first slop PR he submitted to them!

Re: AI has a deep understanding of how this code works

#187

Post by silverlake »

pluc wrote: post #68

To all the AI apologists here I'd like to submit a simple scenario to you and hear your answer: you use AI to create a keynote speech on a topic you needed to use AI to write. At the end of your speech, people ask you questions about the contents of your speech. What do you say? This is the same.

Hi, AI apologist here. This scenario is a problem with or without AI. You can’t drop a 13k line PR you don’t understand without prior discussion. There are many ways to use AI. Your scenario (keynote speech) is a bad way to use it. Instead, a PR where you understand every line, whether you or an AI wrote it, should be fine. It would be indistinguishable from human generated code.

AI is a tool like any other. I hire a carpenter who knows how to build furniture. Whether he uses a Japanese pullsaw or a CNC machine is irrelevant to me.

Re: AI has a deep understanding of how this code works

#188

Post by neuralkoi »

This guy's resume is quite something to behold:

1) Slummed it through the ranks of various Wall Street banks [1]

2) Became the Director of Prime Brokerage Technology at Deutsche Bank in 1999 [2]

3) Went through venture capital round in 2000 and in 9 months built a company valued at over 1,000,000 USD [0]

4) Sold license to Electronic Arts (EA) to power EA World Series of Poker (WSOP). [3]

5) Wrote, but had to cancel a "Hardcore Erlang" book [4]

6) Raised 2 million USD in 2 days for a crypto project (Stegos AG) [2]

Self-described "autodidact and a life-long learner" [1] with " just the right mix of discipline, structured thinking, and creativity to excel as a coder" [0].

This guy is either an undiscovered genious or aiming for the world's best bullshitter award.

[0] https://web.archive.org/web/20060624122838/http://wagerlabs....

[1] https://web.archive.org/web/20070101044653/http://wagerlabs....

[2] https://hackernoon.com/leaders-speak-joel-reymont-lead-devel...

[3] https://joel.id/resume/

[4] https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/674d1/joel_rey...

Re: AI has a deep understanding of how this code works

#189

Post by pluc »

silverlake wrote: post #187
pluc wrote: post #68

To all the AI apologists here I'd like to submit a simple scenario to you and hear your answer: you use AI to create a keynote speech on a topic you needed to use AI to write. At the end of your speech, people ask you questions about the contents of your speech. What do you say? This is the same.

Hi, AI apologist here. This scenario is a problem with or without AI. You can’t drop a 13k line PR you don’t understand without prior discussion. There are many ways to use AI. Your scenario (keynote speech) is a bad way to use it. Instead, a PR where you understand every line, whether you or an AI wrote it, should be fine. It would be indistinguishable from human generated code. AI is a tool like any other. I hire a…

That's a fair answer. How do you stop people from doing it though? How do you stop it from becoming every lazy person's first reflex instead of every smart person's third?

Re: AI has a deep understanding of how this code works

#190

Post by knollimar »

torben-friis wrote: post #94
benterix wrote: post #62

Did these Ocaml maintainers undergo some special course for dealing with difficult people? They show enormous amounts of maturity and patience. I'd just give the offender Torvalds' treatment and block them from the repo, case closed.

I honestly reread the whole thread in awe. Not due to the submitter, as clickbaity as it was, but reading the maintainers and comparing their replies with what I would have written in their place. That was a masterclass of defending your arguments rationally, with empathy, and leaving negative emotions at the door. I wish I was able to communicate like this. My only doubt is whether this has a good or bad effect over…

I work with contractors in construction and often have to throw in vulgarity for them to get the point. This feels very similar to when I'm too nice
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