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Pebble Watch software is now open source

ericmigi.com

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Re: Pebble Watch software is now open source

#181

Post by pimterry »

0xEF wrote: post #177
pjc50 wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incidentally, this is one reason why there's not so much open source hardware out there: people get pedantic about it and apply gradually more unreasonable levels of requirement, rather than accepting partially or substantially open source solutions.

I can be pedantically forgiving myself, admittedly, but this is one thing I'm staunchly behind. If I cannot read every character of every line of code, including packages/dependencies, that makes the hardware function and allows me to alter it as I see fit, then it is not truly open-sourced. For me, the open-source movement is about keeping my software and hardware in alignment with my values and security concerns. I…

From the article:

> These non-free software components are not required - you can compile and run Pebble watch software without them. This will always be the case.

This seems like a reasonable balance. They're shipping default distributions with these blobs included, but you can remove them and run the literally completely purely open source version directly instead if you prefer (although it sounds like you'd notably lose heart rate tracking, along with speech recognition & similar).

Re: Pebble Watch software is now open source

#182

Post by lrvick »

rowanG077 wrote: post #174
fsflover wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Precursor is fully open though, https://www.crowdsupply.com/sutajio-kosagi/precursor

It's not. Most of the ICs and components are not open. Most notably the Xilinx XC7S50 FPGA. It does go much further then any other phone.

Open silicon is a big leap beyond open hardware schematics and BOMs that allow people to repair boards, or redesign them to use alternative components.

Precursor is the most open personal computing device that can be built currently.

Re: Pebble Watch software is now open source

#183

Post by jamesbelchamber »

infotainment wrote: post #112
jpalawaga wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

through all of this, it really feels like rebble didn't know what they want (as they say). the future collaboration with eric also sounds like they don't know what they want. they want a third party mediator for... something. Eric was already prepared to pay them per user, which seemed generous to me to begin with. It sounds to me like Rebble (the board + community) should figure out what they want before trying to p…

It seems like Rebble (the board) really overplayed their hand. From what they posted, it seems like they wanted more control over what Core was doing, deciding that the best way to do that was to try and hold the app store data hostage. Now, with the Core app open sourced and multiple app store repos supported, Rebble's position will likely be greatly diminished from what it could have been if they had been satisfied…

I spent some time on their Discord chatting and trying to nudge them towards a healthier approach.

Many of them seem to think that PebbleOS was released just for them (they quote the Google press release), and so reading between the lines I really do think they feel at some level that code has been "stolen" from them. Which is ridiculous (and I said so) but if they think it's true then it explains their actions much more clearly than any other explanation I've found (or they've elucidated).

My best understanding (which I've extrapolated from what I've learned) is that they had all these plans of being a scrappy team who worked together on PebbleOS in their spare time, as friends, and Eric capitalising a company of paid developers has made all those plans redundant - so they've been powering through the five stages of grief in coming to terms with that while everyone else has been celebrating the return of Pebble.

Re: Pebble Watch software is now open source

#184

Post by Wowfunhappy »

paxcoder wrote: post #100
mid-kid wrote: post #99

For some of us software freedom enthusiasts it is worth noting that PebbleOS contains some proprietary blobs for some peripherals in the watch[1]. This is not just firmware you upload to the peripheral but also properietary .a libraries that run on the main core. Though to be fair to OpenDevices, this is source code they don't have acces to either. [1]: https://github.com/coredevices/pebbleos-nonfree/tree/57a94e2...

So not 100% open source. Thanks for the info

They said 100% of Pebble Watch software. The binary blobs are other people's software.

Re: Pebble Watch software is now open source

#185

Post by rowanG077 »

lrvick wrote: post #182
rowanG077 wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not. Most of the ICs and components are not open. Most notably the Xilinx XC7S50 FPGA. It does go much further then any other phone.

Open silicon is a big leap beyond open hardware schematics and BOMs that allow people to repair boards, or redesign them to use alternative components. Precursor is the most open personal computing device that can be built currently.

The comment I replied to was about being "fully open". That indeed goes beyond open hardware. Precursor could go further by at least using an FPGA that has great open source tooling support. It's also not impossible to fab an open FPGA but that's also another hard(and expensive) step.

Precursor goes far, but definitely not as far as currently possible.

Re: Pebble Watch software is now open source

#186

Post by aallaall »

123pie123 wrote: post #173
pjc50 wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incidentally, this is one reason why there's not so much open source hardware out there: people get pedantic about it and apply gradually more unreasonable levels of requirement, rather than accepting partially or substantially open source solutions.

The reason why people get "pedantic" about this stuff, is due the ability in the future to get screwed over when the priority blob owner start to charge money or other pull other license crap

Enshittification. Open source is a valuable guarantee against that.

Re: Pebble Watch software is now open source

#187

Post by aallaall »

RobotToaster wrote: post #166
squarefoot wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given how easy is to put and keep hidden malware into devices, governments should demand openness in that field as well. By "putting malware" I don't mean script kiddies in their moms basement but malware/spyware planted by design, which is extremely easy to do if you're the manufacturer, extremely easy to demand/force if you're the government above that manufacturer, and extremely hard to detect if you're a differen…

Every intel processor has a closed source IME, which is probably a NSA backdoor.

Isn’t minix open source?

Re: Pebble Watch software is now open source

#188

Post by bytesandbits »

mid-kid wrote: post #99

For some of us software freedom enthusiasts it is worth noting that PebbleOS contains some proprietary blobs for some peripherals in the watch[1]. This is not just firmware you upload to the peripheral but also properietary .a libraries that run on the main core. Though to be fair to OpenDevices, this is source code they don't have acces to either. [1]: https://github.com/coredevices/pebbleos-nonfree/tree/57a94e2...

By that reasoning the linux kernel is also not open source. Be reasonable.

Re: Pebble Watch software is now open source

#189

Post by aallaall »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #184
paxcoder wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So not 100% open source. Thanks for the info

They said 100% of Pebble Watch software. The binary blobs are other people's software.

Closed verilog I can accept. But in general firmware is also software, for example it has become quite popular in the recent years to execute firmware on an embedded riscv cpu. And move more and more functionality to that kind of firmware.
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