Earlier quoted context omitted.
Let's say, for the sake of argument, that people in the '60s were twice as smart as people now. The average IQ of the people then would be 100, and the average IQ of people now would also be 100, even though there was a huge difference in intelligence. This is because 100 is defined as being the average rather than being an absolute measure.
That's only true if you renorm. Look up the Flynn effect.
210 IQ Is Not Enough
181–190 of 284 posts
Re: 210 IQ Is Not Enough
#182Earlier quoted context omitted.
Wondering what being 'smart' means? Is it: 1. being right most of the time? 2. knowing a lot (breadth)? 3. knowing a couple things in depth? 4. knowing in breadth and depth? 5. understanding new things fast (which is only measurable by someone who knows more?)? 6. solving puzzle and brainteasers easily? 7. being able to speak multiple languages? 8. being self-taught in what people may claim to be complex subjects? 9.…
I've heard it defined as the ability to learn quickly. Not just in the narrow, academic sense, but also by observing the world and people and drawing conclusions about them. It has to do with pattern recognition and abstraction. Usually these people are knowledgeable because they are constantly learning. Eventually they become wise. What do you think of that definition?
Re: 210 IQ Is Not Enough
#183Earlier quoted context omitted.
> How do you measure the capacity for improvisational comedy? What makes something funny? Usually, it's by subverting someone's predictions. You have to be good at predicting other's predictions to do this well. > How do you measure a talent for telling convincing lies? You have to explain a phenomenon better than the truth to convince someone of your lie. > How do you measure someone's capacity for innovating in a n…
Reducing comedy to 'subverting predictions' and empathy to 'compression algorithms' is like explaining music as 'organized sound waves', technically defensible yet completely missing the point. Missing the forest for the trees is an objective sign of limited metacognition, by the way. The fact that you claim to be 'above average' at empathy and social cues while writing this robotic dismissal that completely misses t…
Re: 210 IQ Is Not Enough
#184> According to Yoo, by the time he was 1, her son learned both the Korean alphabet and 1,000 Chinese characters by studying the Thousand Character Classic, a sixth-century Chinese poem.[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Ung-yong Is that true? How is that even possible? Like, biologically.
My nephew was reading at age two… he is obviously a very special kid, but no one really pushed him to do that. Apparently this would kind of freak people out in public. I’m not sure if reading before age one is biologically possible, but I have a surprising data point in my life, so who knows.
Re: 210 IQ Is Not Enough
#185Or to quote the late astrophysicist Stephen Hawking: "People who boast about their IQ are losers".
Re: 210 IQ Is Not Enough
#186Earlier quoted context omitted.
Exactly. We don't have a good definition of intelligence and I don't think we ever will. Like all social concepts, it is highly dependent on the needs, goals, and values of the human societies that define it, and so it is impossible to come up with a universal definition. If your needs don't align with the needs an AI has been trained to meet, you are not going to find it very intelligent of helpful for meeting those…
You're quite literally babbling. If a word has no good definition, it ceases to be a word. All you really mean is you use the word "intelligence" very loosely, without really knowing what you mean when you use it. You just use it to point at a concept that's vague in your head. That does not mean you could not make that concept more precise, if you felt inclined to be more introspective. It also does not mean that th…
Who is babbling? The number of concepts in human language that have no mathematical formalization far outnumber the ones that do, lol.
Yes, we can, obviously, come up with shared, mathematically precise definitions for certain concepts. Keep in mind that:
A. These formal or scientific definitions are not the full exhaustion of the concept. Linguistic usage is varied and wide. Anyone who has bothered to open an introductory linguistics textbook understands this.
B. The scientific and mathematical definitions still change over time and can also change across cultures and contexts.
I can assure you that someone who has scored very high on an IQ test would not be considered "intelligent" in a group of film snobs if they were not aware of the history of film, up to date on the latest greats, etc. etc. These people would probably use the word intelligent to describe what they mean (knowledge of film) and not the precise technical definition we've come up with, if any, whether you like it or not.
My point is not that it is impossible to come up with definitions, my point is that for socially fluid concepts like intelligence, which are highly dependent on the needs and circumstances of the people employing the word, we will likely never pin it down. There is an asterisk on every use of the word. This is the case with basically every word to more or lesser degree, that's why language and ideas evolve in the first place.
My whole point is that people that don't realize this and put faith in IQ as though it is some absolute, or final, indicator of intelligence are dumb and probably just egotists who are uncomfortable with uncertainty and want reassurance that they are smart so that they can tell other people they are "babbling" and feel good about themselves and their intellectual superiority complex (read: self justified pride in being an asshole).
My claim is that this high variability and contextual sensitivity is a core part of this word and the way we use it. That's what I mean when I say I don't think we'll ever have a good definition.
EDIT: Or, to make it a little easier to understand. We will never have a universal definition of "moral good" because it is dependent on value claims, people will argue morality forever. My position is that "intelligence" is equally dependent on value claims which I think anyone who has spent more than five minutes with people not like themselves or trained in different forms of knowledge intuitively understands this.
Re: 210 IQ Is Not Enough
#187Re: 210 IQ Is Not Enough
#188A really good litmus test of individual perspective and maturity, here. Already seeing comments nitpick specific arguments or points, which is itself the trap to shine a light on those individuals more obsessed with arbitrary external measures of their personal definition of success, rather than self-reflecting on said definition and asking whether or not this definition fits who they are or want to be as a person, o…
The observation in this article is part of a more general principle: Happiness isn't a single variable equation. It directly parallels the observation that "money doesn't buy happiness." 210 IQ will never be enough. $20M dollars will never be enough. This article is interesting to me because I see people falsely equivocating money with happiness all the time, and pretty much never see it with IQ. I didn't realize it…
I find that when people associate money with happiness, what they fail to observe is that they actually want the presumed stability such money would afford them, at their current lifestyle. Failing to acknowledge and plan around that leads to “lifestyle creep” as income rises, which simply perpetuates the same grievances they currently have around instability or insecurity, just with higher price tags and consequences for failure. I strongly suspect that billionaires engage in wealth and asset hoarding for this very reason: a terror of status, security, and stability collapse.
Once I let go of lifestyle creep and found contentment and gratuity in what I had, I began realizing that stability is shockingly affordable even under modern policies and economics. Releasing yourself from this forced societal obligation to “Keep Up with the Jones’” is a key step towards objectively reflecting on your life as it’s lived, and identifying what’s of genuine import to you. Only by doing that do you find what is actually needed for personal fulfillment, and thus, happiness.
Re: 210 IQ Is Not Enough
#189Earlier quoted context omitted.
That assumes a normal distribution.
I thought IQ was specifically designed to be normally distributed?
Also, this is where theory meets reality.
Defining something as “the average” or “one std deviation “ is strange when the population is unmeasured and changing.
Re: 210 IQ Is Not Enough
#190Earlier quoted context omitted.
> How do you measure the capacity for improvisational comedy? What makes something funny? Usually, it's by subverting someone's predictions. You have to be good at predicting other's predictions to do this well. > How do you measure a talent for telling convincing lies? You have to explain a phenomenon better than the truth to convince someone of your lie. > How do you measure someone's capacity for innovating in a n…
> What makes something funny? Usually, it's by subverting someone's predictions. And in those other cases? You have a rigorous definition of comedy? > You have to explain a phenomenon better than the truth to convince someone of your lie. This is so often not true I would argue it's generally false . A story is believed because a listener "wants" to believe it. Some listeners have more or less complex criteria for ac…
There's surely more to comedy than subverting expectations. Someone else who cares more about comedy in particular can figure that out for themself, but surely I gave enough of the general idea to make it clear how you could go about measuring the intelligence necessary for comedy.
> A story is believed because a listener "wants" to believe it. Some listeners have more or less complex criteria for acceptance.
Yeah, that's the sense of "better" I was going for. I could have been more clear here, so I'm glad you figured out what I meant.
> Couldn't I say the same about your use of Introspective? Surely a more detailed phrase exists to describe what you mean.
It was a not-so-kind way of saying, "don't point at vague ideas to obscure what you really mean and make it difficult for others to understand what you mean to keep your opinion unassailable."
> Why exactly do you say this skill [resolving conflicts] is not intelligence-based?
Most people have more time to think than they actually use during conflicts, so I expect most of the time conflicts come from people preferring to not think than because they lack the ability. That or a fundamental value difference (you want my food, I want my food).