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Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

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Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#181

Post by runako »

tjohns wrote: post #125
runako wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's normal for police at a traffic stop to take your license back to their car while they write a ticket or whatever. Until laws change, having your only license on your phone means handing your phone to an officer until they are satisfied they no longer need it.

States that have implemented mobile drivers licenses are starting to issue handheld readers to police officers, precisely so what you describe doesn't happen. The people building this know nobody wants to hand their phone over to the police.

Police sometimes confiscate licenses (rightly or wrongly).

Having your license confiscated when it doubles as your wallet, MFA device for work, and primary communications device sounds like a disaster.

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#182

Post by vel0city »

varispeed wrote: post #151
frankus wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this just seeing a slippery slope and deciding to build a terrace[1], in that the existence of a digital ID doesn't automatically lead to mandate to carry one—any more than the existence of a physical ID card does? [1] to paraphrase one many excellent John McCarthy-isms: http://jmc.stanford.edu/general/sayings.html

physical ID doesn't report your location.

A physical ID can, depending on the validation process.

Digital ID doesn't have to report your location either, depending on the implementation. It's not like it's a given a digital ID system has to give your location.

An SSH key is a digital ID. Does it report your location when you use it? A GPG key can be a digital ID. Does it report your location when you sign something?

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#183

Post by vel0city »

mystifyingpoi wrote: post #117
tzs wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US if you need a state ID card and a driver's license those are generally combined into a single card. They usually only need its driver's license functionality when they are driving but often need its ID card functionality when they are away from the car and so it generally goes with them.

Ah, that's why, ok. Didn't know they are combined.

I mean, they don't have to be. You can often get a state ID card and a driver's license, but that's essentially redundant. More fees, more time, more paperwork. Things that require an ID just require some state or federally issued photo ID, so you can use a DL, a state ID, a passport, etc. When the extreme majority of adults are already needing a DL to get groceries why bother with another ID.

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#184

Post by avs733 »

teeray wrote: post #7
willio58 wrote: post #4

I’m still waiting for the day where 100% of state drivers licenses are supported in wallet and anyone requesting ID are required to accept them. Quite literally the only reason I have a wallet these days is for the drivers license.

> and anyone requesting ID are required to accept them This is the big one. I've seen a lot of states where digital drivers licenses are issued, but many retailers are like "lol no, we want the card." It needs to be legally enshrined as identical.

I've had state government (including both cops and clerks) refuse to acknowledge my digital ID in my state.

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#185

Post by op00to »

saguntum wrote: post #111
op00to wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans do not need to provide ID to vote, so no?

In some states you do need ID to vote. Texas, for example.

Huh, thanks! I am a yankee so I have a bit of a limited view.

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#186

Post by quit32 »

jcon321 wrote: post #180
crazygringo wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why "no thank you"? I am very much thank you. I'm still waiting for Apple to support the driver's license from my state. It will be one less thing to carry. There are literally no downsides. My state already had me in its electronic database because I'm a driver. The TSA already has me in its electronic database. Apple already knows exactly who I am from my many credit card purchases with them. It's not taking away a…

You have no issues with handing over your cell phone to a police officer who pulls you over? I imagine you'll say "all I have to do is present an ID", but what if the officer cannot read it, so he wants to hold it? Okay you wont let him hold it, so he bends down and gets real close to your phone? You know he must verify the address against his database, so you're going to make him write down your address as he walks…

Places that support Apple's digital ID / Wallet state ID do so by utilizing a an identity reader that the user taps their phone against after selecting which info they want to convey. It is not meant for the owner to physically show the phone to the requesting party.

I'm sure this will happen in some cases especially in the interim where digital ID is technically not accepted but the person doesn't have their physical ID. An example would be a traffic stop in a state that currently supports digital state ID since usually the digital ID is basically only supported at TSA currently. But the cop looking at your phone doesn't add any more authenticity vs you just verbalizing the info and them writing it down which is what they usually do if someone has a photo of their missing ID.

Also, Apple cleverly designed it so if phone is in locked state and you activate wallet and select ID, the biometric scan it does doesn't unlock the entire phone and trying to get into the rest of phone requires another biometric scan or phone password.

From the article "Users do not need to unlock, show, or hand over their device to present their ID."

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#187

Post by pcdoodle »

GardenLetter27 wrote: post #152
godelski wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At best a digital ID has an additional attack surface and is just more accessible. You normally aren't carrying your passport with you, right? So even if lower security, the chance of that information being swiped is generally lower. Phones are pretty high profile targets, this makes them more so. I do like the idea and the convenience, but I'm definitely wary of these things too. Especially in the modern tech world…

You're ignoring the benefits though - it will help adapt more services to work online and reduce bureaucracy. Look at Germany where they outright refuse to acknowledge emails as a legal notification / correspondence so everything still gets sent as letters and fax. It's extremely slow and cumbersome. Also it will help for security as the central service can authenticate you, instead of every little hotel and bank bra…

Good. Send it in the mail. I don't want my inbox to require legal burden to read.

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#188

Post by pcdoodle »

crazygringo wrote: post #173
astroflection wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. I will continue to have a DL card so I can choose to leave my phone at home. When we are required to have our IDs on our person at all times I can at least not be tracked everywhere I go. Be watchful for legislation requiring: * us to have our ID on our person at all times. * IDs to be issued in digital format only.

> Be watchful for legislation requiring This is the paranoia I don't get. These are not things that are going to happen in the US, precisely because so many people (like yourself) are against it, and it's a democracy and people vote. So putting your drivers license on your iPhone isn't some slippery slope.

>So putting your drivers license on your iPhone isn't some slippery slope.

Yes it is. And participating is accepting it.

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#189

Post by pcdoodle »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #75
willio58 wrote: post #4

I’m still waiting for the day where 100% of state drivers licenses are supported in wallet and anyone requesting ID are required to accept them. Quite literally the only reason I have a wallet these days is for the drivers license.

I've been stopped by cops maybe once per 10 year. In that case I'm happy to pay $50 fine for failing to present license which they can check on their database anyway.

This is the way

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#190

Post by ghaff »

crazygringo wrote: post #171
sschueller wrote: post #144

No thank you. I am glad that the first eID vote we had on this (in Switzerland) prevented private industry from issuing IDs etc. What we have now (upcoming, after another vote) is an open source[1] non centralized eID issued by the government.[2] Although there are still some problematic points (initial issuance software is not open source and who can ask for the ID is not limited enough) the solution we have now is…

Why "no thank you"? I am very much thank you. I'm still waiting for Apple to support the driver's license from my state. It will be one less thing to carry. There are literally no downsides. My state already had me in its electronic database because I'm a driver. The TSA already has me in its electronic database. Apple already knows exactly who I am from my many credit card purchases with them. It's not taking away a…

I think there are a lot of good reasons to (also) carry a small number of cards and cash.

Take medical. The usual procedure if they need to scan your insurance info is to feed one or two cards through a scanner thingie. Others mention traffic stops and other interactions of that sort.

Could this all change eventually? But I have no problem with carrying a small business card sized wallet if only as backup in the interim.

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