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Don't avoid workplace politics

terriblesoftware.org

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Re: Don't avoid workplace politics

#181

Post by loeg »

rossdavidh wrote: post #24

"Think about the last time a terrible technical decision got pushed through at your company. Maybe it was adopting some overcomplicated architecture, or choosing a vendor that everyone knew was wrong, or killing a project that was actually working. I bet if you dig into what happened, you’ll find it wasn’t because the decision-makers were stupid. It’s because the people with the right information weren’t in the room.…

C-suite only get credit for changes, so they are incentivized to make changes at random and hope some of them turn out to look good in hindsight.

Re: Don't avoid workplace politics

#182

Post by dang »

QuadrupleA wrote: post #175
dang wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We put workplace politics in the title above, and also switched from the baity "Stop avoiding" to a more representative phrase from the article.

Hmm, feel like the new title is pretty lifeless. I wouldn't have clicked this (very good IMHO) article with the current title. "Stop Avoiding Workplace Politics" would represent it better - it's addressing people (like me) who sometimes fancy themselves above it.

Ok, I've done that above except I replaced stop with don't. ("Stop" is a linkbait trope.)

Re: Don't avoid workplace politics

#183

Post by thaumasiotes »

bartread wrote: post #54
languagehacker wrote: post #41

When Jeff Hodges gave a presentation of his "Notes on Distributed Systems for Youngbloods"[1] at Lookout Mobile Security back in like 2014 or 2015, he did this really interesting aside at the end that changed my perception of my job, and it was basically this. You don't get to avoid "politics" in software, because building is collaborative, and all collaboration is political. You'll only hurt yourself by avoiding lev…

I used to work for a software company that literally had "no politics" as part of its DNA. It was in the company handbook, it was in our values, people would say it when they talked about what it was like to work at the company. Hell, whilst I can't recall any specific instances, I guarantee that I said it and probably many times[0]. But, of course, it was never true. It might have felt true - certainly superficially…

> as one of my favourite quotes (albeit that it's now a bit overused), from Miyamoto Musashi, puts it: “Truth is not what you want it to be; it is what it is. And you must bend to its power or live a lie.”

From https://www.way-of-the-samurai.com/miyamoto-musashi-quotes.h... :

> Musashi did not say this. This comes from a less than accurate “interpretation” of Musashi’s life and work by D. E. Tarver who repeats several fictions and myths about Musashi (hiding under bodies for 3 days at the battle of Sekigahara etc). He includes this line, “Truth is not what you want it to be; it is what it is, and you must bend to its power or live a lie” in the final paragraph of the Fire Scroll introduction. No such Miyamoto Musashi quotes appear in the Japanese, nor in any of the credible English translations.

Re: Don't avoid workplace politics

#184

Post by thaumasiotes »

Nition wrote: post #119
bartread wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to work for a software company that literally had "no politics" as part of its DNA. It was in the company handbook, it was in our values, people would say it when they talked about what it was like to work at the company. Hell, whilst I can't recall any specific instances, I guarantee that I said it and probably many times[0]. But, of course, it was never true. It might have felt true - certainly superficially…

Your Musashi quote reminds me of another relatively well-known quote from philosopher Eugene Gendlin: "What is true is already so. Owning up to it doesn't make it worse. Not being open about it doesn't make it go away. And because it's true, it is what is there to be interacted with. Anything untrue isn't there to be lived. People can stand what is true, for they are already enduring it."

> What is true is already so. Owning up to it doesn't make it worse.

I think this is false in an interpersonal relationship context. Acknowledging something can make it worse.

I often think about a scene from Friends, with the following setup:

- Phoebe is visited, by surprise, by a character unknown to the audience.

- We learn that he is her husband, that he is a gay figure skater, and that the marriage was proposed as one of convenience, allowing him to get a green card by marrying an American.

- We learn that Phoebe agreed to the marriage because she was in love with him and wished she could be his wife.

- The reason for his return is that he's realized he isn't gay, and he wants to get a divorce from Phoebe so that he can marry another woman.

Phoebe naturally finds this distressing. Eventually she agrees to the divorce, but just before handing over the paperwork, she asks him whether, if he had realized earlier, she could have been the one he married (for love).

And then she immediately interrupts to say "Never mind, I don't think there's any answer that would make me feel better."

I am interested in the idea that any answer to this question would make Phoebe feel worse. I agree with it. But it's not obvious why it should be the case that every possible resolution is a step down from no resolution. On an expected value basis it cannot be the case.

Re: Don't avoid workplace politics

#185

Post by bartread »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #183
bartread wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to work for a software company that literally had "no politics" as part of its DNA. It was in the company handbook, it was in our values, people would say it when they talked about what it was like to work at the company. Hell, whilst I can't recall any specific instances, I guarantee that I said it and probably many times[0]. But, of course, it was never true. It might have felt true - certainly superficially…

> as one of my favourite quotes (albeit that it's now a bit overused), from Miyamoto Musashi, puts it: “Truth is not what you want it to be; it is what it is. And you must bend to its power or live a lie.” From https://www.way-of-the-samurai.com/miyamoto-musashi-quotes.h... : > Musashi did not say this. This comes from a less than accurate “interpretation” of Musashi’s life and work by D. E. Tarver who repeats severa…

Thanks: that's interesting to know.

However, I don't know that it erodes the value of the quote which, taken in isolation, rings true. Even, of all things, a Batman movie[0], and Battlestar Galactica[1] (!) have managed to drop some remarkably profound truths on occasion which has made me relatively unfussy about where one can find truth.

At the same time I do like to give due credit so I'll be sure to reference the correct source in future. Thank you, once again.

[0] "You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - seen this one play out first hand multiple times in corporate life, specifically in leadership.

[1] "You cannot play God then wash your hands of the things that you've created. Sooner or later, the day comes when you can't hide from the things that you've done anymore." - take heed, Mark Zuckerberg.

Re: Don't avoid workplace politics

#186

Post by wat10000 »

amarant wrote: post #3
gm678 wrote: post #2

> Hence it is evident that the state is a creation of nature, and that man is by nature a political animal. And he who by nature and not by mere accident is without a state, is either above humanity, or below it; he is the ‘Tribeless, lawless, hearthless one,’ whom Homera denounces — the outcast who is a lover of war; he may be compared to a bird which flies alone. Sure, Aristotle wasn't talking about corporations, b…

Tribeless suits me just fine. The whole reason I avoid politics is because it's not solution oriented. I don't get the feeling people discussing politics are trying to solve any problems, they're just fighting a tribal war, to have their tribe win over the other tribe(s). Tribe cohesion seems to be valued waay higher than end results, and I'm a results-oriented person, so politics just isn't an attractive passtime to…

Politics and discussing politics are pretty much unrelated things.

Actual politics is 100% solution oriented. It's about getting other people to do what you want to achieve the outcome you want. Disagreements are about which outcomes are desired, or which actions will best achieve them.

Discussing politics is, at best, about saying what you wish other people would do.

Re: Don't avoid workplace politics

#188

Post by harrall »

obviouslynotme wrote: post #128
johnfn wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel that a lot of the times conversations around this topic end up with some anecdote like "well, playing politics doesn't actually work because I work at a dysfunctional company where decisions are made by morons". If you have a C-suite that makes decisions based on golf games, this advice is not for you. You have a different set of problems. You should absolutely address those problems. But that doesn't mean tha…

Except this is an article on how to perform technical politics in large organizations. Functional, intelligent, non-nepotistic leadership is the exception , not the rule. It has been this way for a long time, perhaps forever. Dilbert became one of the most circulated comics for good reason. This article is the third guy. Pretending that identifying stakeholders' needs, communicating the solutions, and delivering them…

I think these discussions always miss a nuance.

I work at a big company. There are parts that are nepotistic and there are parts less so. I just utilize the parts that work.

It’s like a restaurant that has bad food. Do I avoid the restaurant? No I still go and get the 1 good dish.

Why would I deprive myself because the restaurant doesn’t tick every box? On the other hand, why would I go in ever thinking it’s a good restaurant?

Re: Don't avoid workplace politics

#189

Post by lmm »

johnfn wrote: post #138
obviouslynotme wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except this is an article on how to perform technical politics in large organizations. Functional, intelligent, non-nepotistic leadership is the exception , not the rule. It has been this way for a long time, perhaps forever. Dilbert became one of the most circulated comics for good reason. This article is the third guy. Pretending that identifying stakeholders' needs, communicating the solutions, and delivering them…

> Functional, intelligent, non-nepotistic leadership is the exception The majority of marriages end in divorce. This doesn't mean that I should treat all prospective partners as someone I will eventually divorce. That is not healthy for me, the people I interact with, or my future.

> The majority of marriages end in divorce. This doesn't mean that I should treat all prospective partners as someone I will eventually divorce. That is not healthy for me, the people I interact with, or my future.

You should be aware that it's a possibility and act accordingly. Pretending divorce is impossible is what's unhealthy; preparing for the possibility will make for a healthier marriage and a better future, whether you ultimately divorce or not.

Re: Don't avoid workplace politics

#190

Post by ivape »

alphazard wrote: post #35

This is not a great take. Politics shows up as a failure to construct an aligned organization. There will always be some politics, but it should not be the most significant thing going on at a company. In a well designed org, it tends towards zero. In a positive sum environment, with incentives aligned with the shareholders, everyone is trying to make the business more profitable, and the "more" that everyone wants c…

It's bad advice. Office politics is toxic, no matter how you slice it. It's the one thing I'd urge anyone that wants to focus on the best parts of a career to avoid at all costs. It brings out the worst qualities in people (tribalism, favoritism, gossip).
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