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Our efforts, in part, define us

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Re: Our efforts, in part, define us

#181

Post by zwnow »

HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #99

It's still largely unclear how AI is going to affect the job of software engineers both in the shorter term, pre-AGI, and after that. However, I'm pretty sure that the job of SWE isn't about to disappear, since even when human-level AGI appears, the process of software development isn't about to get any easier than when it was done by actual humans. I don't see non-technical middle managers able to take over as syste…

After AGI? AGI is not a reality anyone of us will witness. Its a false promise in the current LLM market and we are as far away from it as we always have been... just listen to actual experts on the topic that dont profit from pushing a certain narrative.

Re: Our efforts, in part, define us

#182

Post by HarHarVeryFunny »

zwnow wrote: post #181
HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #99

It's still largely unclear how AI is going to affect the job of software engineers both in the shorter term, pre-AGI, and after that. However, I'm pretty sure that the job of SWE isn't about to disappear, since even when human-level AGI appears, the process of software development isn't about to get any easier than when it was done by actual humans. I don't see non-technical middle managers able to take over as syste…

After AGI? AGI is not a reality anyone of us will witness. Its a false promise in the current LLM market and we are as far away from it as we always have been... just listen to actual experts on the topic that dont profit from pushing a certain narrative.

Demis Hassabis is estimating 5-10 years to AGI, and is about the only person who's opinion on this I think is worth listening to. His/their (DeepMind) plan is to retain a pretrained LLM but add something like search around it (cf AlphaGo or AlphaFold). He does say a couple of "Transformer-level" major breakthoughs may be needed to get there, and is still only 50% confident because of AGI-requirements he may have missed.

Hassabis has the Google DeepMind team of 5000+, very many of who are PhD's, working for him, so a lot can be done in 5-10 years.

Re: Our efforts, in part, define us

#183

Post by munificent »

I used to be very into photography before Instagram and smartphones inundated the world with easy acceptably good photos.

I was into DJing when that meant buying vinyl and mastering the difficult art of beatmatching by ear before CDJs made acquiring music trivial and automated beatmatching made mixing easy.

I was a game developer during the time when casual smartphone games came and ate so much time and attention that players had less time available for other games.

I got into making music when that meant fighting with big, slow, complex hardware synthesizers, then watched anyone with a laptop (including me) be able to do all of that a hundred times more easily, and now I watch AI auto-generate passable background music.

Time and time again, I've seen this same process play out.

Many of the deepest joys in my life involved putting deep time and care into making something to share with others. That feels increasingly out of step with the culture at large.

Re: Our efforts, in part, define us

#184

Post by bsenftner »

whatevertrevor wrote: post #175
bsenftner wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I treat emotions as yet to be vocalized or identified observations. Emotions are like unsaid statements, hanging in a pregnant pause. If I find myself caught up in emotion, that is a likely scenario where bias can enter my self conversation, and being aware of the danger of self conversation bias, I turn my suspicious self against myself and re-center logically. Wash away that emotion with analysis and awareness.

I find trying to hide and wash away emotions tends to be a dangerous strategy long term. I get that sometimes emotions are unproductive for the task at hand, but the longer you keep washing them away with "logic", the stronger they keep returning at inopportune times. The long term strategy that works for me is to acknowledge them, actually listen to them, but also recognize I have the ability to act despite them. Ea…

My use of "wash away" is more like "transform from unstated feeling to stated feeling with new analysis minimizing bias, for future decisions". It's not a suppression, it's a making stated what was unstated before. It's an attempt at self honesty.

Re: Our efforts, in part, define us

#185

Post by smcin »

dpark wrote: post #170
mrandish wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, a typical advice trope is "Find things with meaning and do those" which isn't very useful once you understand we create meaning internally. Meaning is an individualized perception not an extrinsic property. This gets tricky because our perceptions can be influenced by societal expectations of which things should be meaningful - as if it's an objective property. It's easy to think of activities to which many peo…

> Yeah, a typical advice trope is "Find things with meaning and do those" which isn't very useful once you understand we create meaning internally. Meaning is an individualized perception not an extrinsic property. Why does intrinsic meaning make this advice not useful? I have always understood this sort of advice to mean “do things that are meaningful to you ”.

The obvious problem quadrant is if you work on something that has huge meaning to you personally, but no or negative use to most people. Meaning can have both intrinsic and extrinsic components.

Inevitably you have to compromise on what is the most meaningful thing to achieve some reasonably happy balance. How much compromise, how you internalize it to yourself, etc. you have to figure out.

Re: Our efforts, in part, define us

#186

Post by s_m_t »

munificent wrote: post #183

I used to be very into photography before Instagram and smartphones inundated the world with easy acceptably good photos. I was into DJing when that meant buying vinyl and mastering the difficult art of beatmatching by ear before CDJs made acquiring music trivial and automated beatmatching made mixing easy. I was a game developer during the time when casual smartphone games came and ate so much time and attention tha…

OTOH there are more people than ever earnestly doing all those things. If we take the barrier to entry for publishing being as low as it is as a factor in you and many other professionals having written top quality technical books then I for one am thankful for this process you speak of.

Re: Our efforts, in part, define us

#187

Post by b_e_n_t_o_n »

__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #47
makerofthings wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I became a programmer because I like to write code. Having an llm write code for me is like building a robot that eats cake.

The kind of things that LLMs can make without tremendous amounts of hand holding... Are they the kind of projects that you like to write code for? I became a programmer because I want to explore the edge of what's possible. I'm finding it still satisfying when I'm doing it via LLM. They're only good at spitting out entire projects when those projects resemble many that already exist.

I think this is accurate.

Re: Our efforts, in part, define us

#188

Post by gradschool »

munificent wrote: post #183

I used to be very into photography before Instagram and smartphones inundated the world with easy acceptably good photos. I was into DJing when that meant buying vinyl and mastering the difficult art of beatmatching by ear before CDJs made acquiring music trivial and automated beatmatching made mixing easy. I was a game developer during the time when casual smartphone games came and ate so much time and attention tha…

I used to enjoy dancing but I don't any more because Boston Dynamics invented a robot that can dance better than I can.

I used to enjoy writing but now it's so easy for anyone to self-publish a book on Amazon that I don't see the point.

I used to enjoy running but all the fun has gone out of it now that motor vehicles exist that can move faster than I can run.

I used to like sky-diving, but then hail stones ...

Re: Our efforts, in part, define us

#189

Post by munificent »

gradschool wrote: post #188
munificent wrote: post #183

I used to be very into photography before Instagram and smartphones inundated the world with easy acceptably good photos. I was into DJing when that meant buying vinyl and mastering the difficult art of beatmatching by ear before CDJs made acquiring music trivial and automated beatmatching made mixing easy. I was a game developer during the time when casual smartphone games came and ate so much time and attention tha…

I used to enjoy dancing but I don't any more because Boston Dynamics invented a robot that can dance better than I can. I used to enjoy writing but now it's so easy for anyone to self-publish a book on Amazon that I don't see the point. I used to enjoy running but all the fun has gone out of it now that motor vehicles exist that can move faster than I can run. I used to like sky-diving, but then hail stones ...

I have self-published a couple of books. I do enjoy writing, but what I enjoy even more is being read. If I honestly felt my books were never going to be seen by anyone, I wouldn't have written them. Providing value to other people was the main source of meaning and joy for me with those projects.

Re: Our efforts, in part, define us

#190

Post by Bhilai »

munificent wrote: post #183

I used to be very into photography before Instagram and smartphones inundated the world with easy acceptably good photos. I was into DJing when that meant buying vinyl and mastering the difficult art of beatmatching by ear before CDJs made acquiring music trivial and automated beatmatching made mixing easy. I was a game developer during the time when casual smartphone games came and ate so much time and attention tha…

You could still do all or any or none for your own joy.
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